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Discussion Starter #21
Liggy, thank you for the information
 
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That's great information, Styles. if I understood you correctly you are saying that no Wireless clip on microphone under $1,000 is going to be as good as the wired clip-on microphones, in terms of sound quality. thank you for doing the research and giving me the information about the wired option, in case I never find perfect wireless option at the right price.
No sir, you do not understand me correctly. What I said was I tried a lot of very expensive mics, including Electro-Voice, Shure, Audio Technia, and Neumann, all great mics. My experience was the best of the ones I tried was the ATM 35 wired mic. The wireless one I later bought and used had a microphone by Audio Technica, but it was not as good as the mic on the wired version. Samson partnered with AT, and they sold the smallest, and lightest mic that worked over a long distance, and it did not required a large receiver like the ones sold today do. It was a great product. I think it was too good for the price. In comparing the two mics, the wired one was better, because a copper wire never had interference problems, no batteries to die in the middle of a song, and the mic itself was stellar. Too bad they do not make that one anymore, because it was great. It was a tradeoff...the wired one was more reliable, had a better mic capsule, and sounded far better. The wireless one had a less costly mic, and batteries would go out in compliance with Murphy's Law, but it did give me the freedom to move around, and even go into an audience if I wanted. It is a trade off.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
That's a good point. I don't really need to move much, because I depend heavily on my lead sheets (memory/concentration issues). But I do like to sway to help get some of those notes out a little better (not for show). Maybe I need to re-think my plan, now that you mention it, if there is such a chance of interference and dead batteries.
 

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I think you will like the ATM 35 wired mic that clips on. It has a long, thin wire that goes into a cigarette pack sized input, and then you connect your XLR mic cord to that. Since it is a condenser mic, it either requires a 9V battery, or phantom power on your mixing board. Phantom is just easier, no batteries to worry about going bad. The mic itself is fantastic, and very light. No problem at all moving around a bit if you play pretty much in one place.
Most people clamp it on the bottom of the bell, but I found it worked better, and I got a clearer sound with it clipped on the top, pointing down, and to the middle of the bell. Experiment. It is totally reliable.
 

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Just checked out the ATM 35, and it is discontinued, BUT, new and used ones are available on REVERB. Since it is a condenser mic, it will required 48 volt, phantom power from your board, and the mic plugs into either a small box or line transformer. Check out REVERB...they have some excellent ones at less than the standard $350.
 

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Here ya go...they make them with clamps for different instruments, so get one that looks like this, and you need the power pack for 9 volt or 48 volt phantom power.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Wow. Great information, Styles, and thanks for the link and picture, to make it easier to visualize.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Is there a difference between the ATM 35, the ATM 35c, and the ATM 35cw?

One local friend told me, 'I use the Audio Technica System 10 wireless system utilizing the PRO-35cw Instrument microphone"

Is the word "pro" part of the model number, or what?
 

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Another vote for AMT. You can get a setup for under a grand with the transmitter right on the clip on. No wires. No belt pack. And your soundman will love you for it. They've got quality stuff.
 

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Is there a difference between the ATM 35, the ATM 35c, and the ATM 35cw?

One local friend told me, 'I use the Audio Technica System 10 wireless system utilizing the PRO-35cw Instrument microphone"

Is the word "pro" part of the model number, or what?
I bought my ATM 35 and the wireless version later many decades ago. I can only speak intelligently of the ATM 35 in the picture I sent you. They have come out with other models since then, and for other instruments. The one I found on REVERB is like the one I have tucked away someplace, so that is as far as I can speak with knowledge of the product. That one seemed it very good shape, the one I have is like the one in the picture with the Red band on the power pack/transformer/XLR mic cord input. The price is great, so it seems like a pretty good deal. Fantastic mic capsule. You can order other ones they make, and spend a lot more, but I am not sure you will get anything more unless you go wireless which has a lower frequency response, and all the problems wireless has. This one has the best sound. Good luck.
 

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A new or used wireless system will cost you a lot more, and they all have their problems. I used one, but I also ran into big issues in the middle of a solo when the battery went dead, the metal in a building interfered with it broadcasting on the FM band, and sometimes i picked up radio stations. Since you play weddings, I figured that one would be the most reliable, has a far better mic capsule that the wireless ones, and will give you a more reliable and better sound. The link I sent you was for a recording studio, and the guy is asking $150 for the mic and power back/transformer/XLR mic input. That is a pretty low price for such a great clip on mic, and it was designed for saxophone and trumpet. Seemed like a great deal to me unless you just won the lottery.

I am impressed that you are self taught. I had many teachers over the years, but for jazz, that was something I learned on my own...self taught. Given that, it may help if you got a great teacher at least for a few lessons on fundamentals. Little things like keeping your fingers on the mother or pearl key extension, keeping them relaxed, not moving your left hand octave between the thumb rest and the octave, and instead just rolling it are all things I learned when I finally got a great teacher in high school. Made a huge difference in my playing.

If you do not want to do that, consider buying a book by Larry Teal called: The Art of Saxophone Playing. Well worth the money, and worth reading cover to cover. It will be a reference book for the rest of your saxophone playing life. May you be blessed only with great reeds.
 

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I have an ATM-350, successor to the 35. A great little mic for live shows, though being a condenser, it's even better for recordings. At my last show (over a year ago now) I switched to a stand-mounted dynamic mic, since I don't have much room to walk around anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Well, you guys bring up some interesting points.

I have been using an SM57 on a stand, up until now, only because that is what the music store recommended to me, 15 years ago. But I guess it's not a dynamic microphone, since I have to be right up on it, for it to work (or else, boost the gain greatly), although I like the fact that it does not pick up background noise, and the quality of the sound, itself, is good.

That was part of the reason that I was looking for a clip-on microphone, to begin with, so as not to have to be so directly in front of the SM57 all the time.

In fact, when playing in a dark environment, I cannot even see my microphone, making it harder to find it and stay in front of it.

Wireless microphones have "Lower frequency response?" I don't know what that means (cuts off lower frequencies?) but it sounds undesirable. "All the problems that wireless has?" also sounds bad. I'm guessing that that includes "drop-outs" as on a podium wireless microphone for public speakers. I've never known one to work flawlessly except those on television. It must also refer to interference. At any rate, now that you point that out, maybe I should stick to wired clip-ons.

I was unaware that the whole wireless format introduced negative issues regarding sound quality. That is important to me, because I sound bad enough, as it is! Ha.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Zoot, if you switched to a stand-mic, there must have been something wrong with the ATM-350, eh? Why would you switch, regardless of how much room you have to move around, if the clip-on was just as good? Was the sound slightly inferior?
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
Styles, apparently the ATM 35 requires phantom power, and does not work with any batteries. Is that right?

If so, how would I use the phantom-power button on my mixer (pictured below), without applying the same phantom power to all the other microphones on the other channels? It seems impossible.

My concern would be devices such as an mp3 player that I typically plug into one of those channels, for which I would not want phantom power applied.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Apparently the Samson truly-wireless clip-on mic also works on a rechargeable battery.

I must say, for the sake of simplification in certain environments, where I may not be able to take the mixer, stand, cables, etc. it is certainly enticing to have a clip-on mic that comes with a separately receiver with built-in effects, especially reverberation. That is about the only effect that I use, although I assume that it could not be used in conjunction with a second effect, such as the harmonizer in the CloudVocal set-up.

But if there were a set-up like that that used ordinary batteries, rather than rechargeable, I think I would opt for that.

Until I do find one, I am still considering the ATM-35 wired clip-on, for the moment.
 

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Styles, apparently the ATM 35 requires phantom power, and does not work with any batteries. Is that right?

If so, how would I use the phantom-power button on my mixer (pictured below), without applying the same phantom power to all the other microphones on the other channels? It seems impossible.

My concern would be devices such as an mp3 player that I typically plug into one of those channels, for which I would not want phantom power applied.
A SM57 is a dynamic mic which does not require 9 volt, or 48 volt phantom power. It is not as sensitive in the way it responds, and has nothing to do with needing to get right up next to it. Using 48 volt phantom power using one switch on your mixer which is global...affects all the mics, but only the mic going into XLR inputs which is a normal mic input. If you run phantom power through a SM57 or other mics, it does nothing...hence why it is called phantom power. It has no effect on them, and would not even go into an mp3 player unless it is plugged into an XLR input, which it should not be. XLR is a 3 pin female input.
A condenser mic requires that electricity in order to operate, but they are more sensitive, responds faster, and capture sound in a different way. The phantom power only goes to the XLR inputs, and has no effect on other dynamic mics because it just passes through them harmlessly having no effect on them. You should not have an mp3 player plugged into an XLR input, and most boards have a 1/4 inch input, or more often a phono sized input that is much smaller for those devices, and the phantom is not routed there. You also have the option of using a 9 volt battery in the power pack/transformer instead of phantom that the female XLR plugs into, and then the male XLR goes to your XLR input. Sounds complicated, but is actually very easy.
Having a clip on mic like the ATM 35 always keeps the distance of the mic the same, unlike the SM57, so you can move around, and everything stays the same as it should. More consistent sound that way, and more professional sounding. New ones go for $350 or more if you can find them because they are out of production. A wireless will cost you a lot more, and you have to haul around a large receiver with antennas, and hope everything works. The used one I found on REVERB is selling for $150, and the guy has two of them for sale, but it is $150 each which is a fair price. Note: I have no connection to the person selling them, I just found them when I did a search on REVERB, and knew what to look for. They can handle the loud sound pressure on a sax or trumpet, and were designed for them. You will notice a big difference in the sound you get through you P.A. right away, and as you move around a bit as you play, the sound will remain consistent. That should answer all your questions. Good luck.
 

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Zoot, if you switched to a stand-mic, there must have been something wrong with the ATM-350, eh? Why would you switch, regardless of how much room you have to move around, if the clip-on was just as good? Was the sound slightly inferior?
Not really, people generally seem to prefer dynamic mics for live performances. In my case, it was because this particular show required me to leave the stage frequenty with my horn, switch between alto and tenor offstage, and jump back on stage later on for another number. There just wasn't always time to unclip the mic from one horn, clip it somewhere secure (in a previous show, my ATM got kicked into the audience by a bandmate), then clip it back on again for the next number. Having a mic in a stand made it a lot simpler.

EDIT: I don't really know if the ATM sounded as good as my Beyerdynamic. It was a loud show in a big room, and I can't say what the audience heard.
 

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Eric....I have the AT 35, the Samson Airline, and a Shure Beta 98 here. Feel free to come try them out. I’d happily let you borrow one for a few weeks... The AT 35 is wired with a mini XLR, but it’s easy enough to get a transmitter/ receiver combo for it.

For what it’s worth - I was using the Shure on the show you came to see at Tannery Row. It’s all I ever use anymore. I bought the Samson exactly because there is no body pack, but I just never liked tsound.

I prefer the Shure Beta 98 for several reasons- All FOH engineers have mixed with them before, they’re extremely sturdy, and they sound better (IMO) than the others. The Samson is truly wireless, but sound quality was just ok and the clip is weak, which is a dealbreaker for me. I really tried to like it. I kept it as a backup, but I’ve never needed it.
As for the AT 35 - I just didn’t care for the sound compared to the Shure.

On another note: Going wireless takes a bit of getting used to. You have some control over dynamic with a mic on a stand vs one that’s clipped on, and you can even turn away from it completely to adjust tuning (or find the key in a walk-on situation). When you’re wireless you’re at the mercy of the person behind the mixer.

Good luck with your search.
 

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Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
Leave it to Fader to save the day. Whatever I'm looking for, he's always got one at home for me to go and try out. Ha. Thank you. I hadn't thought to ask your advice on this subject, to be honest.

By the way, Fader, you say that you have the Shure Beta 98, but I see LOTS of different versions of 98 on the Shure website. Are you talking about the 98H/C?

Styles, thank you for the very, very good information. So, then, the AT 35 has the option of using the battery. Question answered. Thank you.

Yes, guys, thank you for reminding me of the differences between a clip-on and a regular stand mic. Tough call, there.

Styles, thanks again. By the way, to date I have never used or had need of phantom power. I have my mp3 player (a separate, dedicated cell phone, really) plugged into one of the main four XLR channels (see diagram above) by means of an 1/8" to XLR cable, only because I can't get enough volume out of it otherwise using the remaining channels 5-10. Channels 1-4 have a "boosted" signal (pre-amps), whereas channels 5-10 do not, so, even with the mp3 player at full volume, and with individual channel volume set high, I cannot get enough sound from channels 5-10. You say that I should not use this set-up? (I suppose I could also use an 1/8" to 1/4" cable to accomplish the same thing, but only through the boosted channels 1-4, which brings me back to square one anyway.)
 
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