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A sweet short clip: still photo, alto playing in background.

 

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great clip and great playing. Alto was the first saxophone that Coltrane played and, despite most comments on youtube, to me, it is evident that he treated this instrument differently from the tenor playing it differently, as one should.
 

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Yeah, this is from the Gene Ammons all star sesh. Trane sounds close to his "sheets of sound" and Blue Train era. There is no mistaking his playing here. His alto playing isn't a fave of mine, but an interesting oddity. I wonder if he's playing a borrowed horn and set-up here,as he really didn't play it often during this period.
 

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Trane played the whole horn.
This is a great point .

When we look at classically trained vocalists we immediately think of " the three tenors " and the range they perform in.

Coltrane's tenor concept corresponds with the classic tenor voice range (and beyond because of the endless upper range of a saxophone. )

Tenor is the highest male singing voice. But when Coltrane played in the same range as the great tenor vocalists it's possibly considered flawed in that it didn't fit in the consensus of a tenor sax sound and apparently even though Coltrane is considered a genius by some and arguably the greatest tenor sax player ever, that consensus hasn't changed for some and possibly many.

I don't want to turn this into pro and anti Coltrane discussion. I'm focusing strictly on the range of the horn and especially how it relates to alto.

Even though we celebrate Pavarotti for hitting the dramatic " high note " the same standard is not used for Coltrane's tenor concept.

It's interesting that some on this forum have a different tenor concept.

I've heard Coltrane's tenor described as an alto concept maybe because it fit in the alto consensus.

With that in mind maybe the modern trend in tenor is a baritone concept?

Now great players like Dexter, Stitt and Johnny Griffin had a " tenor " sound that stayed mainly in the conventional range between low Bb and F3.

So the resistance to Coltrane's tenor concept is possibly due to the fact that he extended the range of the tenor sax and played a balanced concept in the " new " range.

Well one thing for sure about Coltrane when he played tenor whether you like him or not you can definitely hear him.

At least some of us can.

What's really ironic is he did all that on a tenor sax and so everything he played on tenor IS a tenor sound.
 

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Interesting. One says, it's very unlike his tenor playing, most say it is a lot alike.
I say it is a lot alike, but I guess when you improvise, you tend towards patterns that sound good on that very particular horn, although of course, Coltrane played the whole horn. However, I don't know if I can make out a real structural difference here in is playing other than, naturally, it has the alto timbre. I mean, the first 6 seconds I can't even completely tell the sound from a tenor.
Great sound. To be hones, I somehow expected it to sound a lot more tense and out of tune (like so many great altoists). I still prefer the tenor Trane, though!

edit:
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What's really ironic is he did all that on a tenor sax and so everything he played on tenor IS a tenor sound.
Although I don't know too much of the exact ranges vocalists and instrumentalists use or consider en vogue, I agree to the point that Coltrane is a real Tenor player, because I think that the classification does not mean that someone has to stay in a given range, it only means that this is, physically, the deepest range that person can play or sing in. I mean, how many Baritone singers or players can go way up into the soprano range, sometimes even comfortably singing melodies there. Think about Milton Nascimento. Or Michael Brecker. Or countless others. Only because they play and sometimes stay in higher ranges doesn't make them altoists or soprano singers, does it?
 

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With that in mind maybe the modern trend in tenor is a baritone concept?
I can agree with much of your post. At least, I understand what you mean. However, when you say modern trend, I presume you mean the trend now, which I think might more correctly be called post modern. When I think of a 'modern tenor sound concept', I think of Bob Berg and Michael Brecker, which you might describe (and I might agree!) as being more an alto concept. That's not to say that they made the tenor sound like an alto, but the voicing and general sound concept was more towards the alto. I expect a lot of people are going to disagree with this (possibly because they don't understand what you mean), but for once I agree with you! :bluewink:
 

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Just heard both of these recordings (Groove Blues & Big Sound, from Jan 3, '58). Trane sounds so good, makes me wish he would've kept it up, even if for a single cut on some later records of his...kinda Cannonball meets Dolphy approach, but definitely his own thing, he owned the alto on these solos, & never sounds like he's playing a secondary horn.

The other thing that struck me is how badly Jug cuts Quinichette on some of the tunes...it's like Paul was intimidated (can you blame him?) by the depth & power of Jug's sound, & it got him trying to mimic that, took him out of his own "cooler" approach, & messed up his focus.
 

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Every good tenor player knows as soon as you pick up the alto you are gonna sound better than any alto player.
I always find it strange that every time I hear a great alto sound they aren't playing a Selmer, but I never hear that when I listen to tenor players.
 

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Yeah, this is from the Gene Ammons all star sesh. Trane sounds close to his "sheets of sound" and Blue Train era. There is no mistaking his playing here. His alto playing isn't a fave of mine, but an interesting oddity. I wonder if he's playing a borrowed horn and set-up here,as he really didn't play it often during this period.
My understanding is that it was Jerome Richardson's set-up.
 

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Every good tenor player knows as soon as you pick up the alto you are gonna sound better than any alto player.
How many "good" tenor players did you speak with to come up with this wisdom? You're saying that a good tenor player (not even a great tenor player) can simply pick up an alto sax and play better than Charlie Parker, Art Pepper, Adderley, Sanborn and Phil Woods.
 
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