[mallyjames]

hi all;who or what determines whether a sax is a student moderate horn or a top of the range pro horn;bearing in mind that all are made of brass.My student horn(which i love and plays very well intonation wise in all registers;c sharp a bit flat and has excellent cosmetic features) is a selmer prelude a700 model. My teacher says it is a very good horn .Is it just pure greed for the makers to say yeah the mark v1 is worth 3000$ but plays the same as the above student model which cost me 300$.any way i dont care cos the wife just won the uk lottery £255000 in a syndicate.just gonna do the ironing and hoovering.She says i can have a new box of reeds.wheres the ironing board. mally

 

[DanPerezSax]

The quality of the instrument determines it's classification as a student, intermediate or pro horn. It also generally determines its price, though in some extreme cases (most Mark VIs), the price exceeds what can be justified by the quality of the instrument due to collectors valuing the horns simply as high-end possessions. A Mark VI in today's economy, though, is still undervalued at $3000, even if the collectors didn't go nuts over them. A horn that plays as well as a good VI should be around $5k by my estimation. Less than that is a deal, and more I would not pay, with the possible exception of a handmade custom instrument like an Inderbinen, where you're paying for the labor and artistry of the craft at least as much as you're paying for the product you get.

 

[king of jazz]

good thing you don't play flute

 

[JL]

A horn that plays as well as a good VI should be around $5k by my estimation. .

Wow, then my 1940 Buescher Aristocrat tenor should be worth $5k. And I don't disagree with that, but I sure couldn't get $5k for it if I put it up for sale. I was just playing both the 'Crat and my VI today and I can't say for sure that one is better than the other.

 

[DanPerezSax]

Yeah man. I totally believe that there are a ton of seriously undervalued horns out there. Luckily, it's the overvalued ones that get the attention.

 

[NissanVintageSax]

My whole sax arsenal are undervalued brands and models All top pro stock, but never took on the mystique of other makes and models.

And flute players will drop $5000 to $15000 on a flute w/out even thinking about it! And think about string players! $150,000 + for the sought after brands, and $7000 up to $150,000 for the "lesser" brands! My 1922 Conteveli Luigi Violin, is worth $5000, and it was rebuilt from the bottom up! Had it been 100% prisitine, it would be worth $10,000 to $12,000! My Dad got it as partial payment on a piano rebuild , then rebuilt the violin for me to play.

 

[Milt Hathaway]

Ultimately, it is the consumer who determines the price of any item, not the seller or manufacturer.

 

[AhCheung]

Ultimately, it is the consumer who determines the price of any item, not the seller or manufacturer.

For new horns??

 

[jetmech]

For new horns??

Sure, if it is too much money for the quality it won't sell.

 

[maddenma]

Actually, I determine the value of horns, new and old. If you have horn that you think you want to buy or sell, just ask me and I'll tell you what to pay or ask for it.

Simple forumula, really. If I like you, I'll tell you a higher (or lower) number. If I don't like you, I'll tell you the same -- but different.

All up to my discretion, but feel free to ask for clarification at anytime on your particular situation. I may, or likely not, choose to answer.

 

[milandro]

Yes, this rant comes up every so often. Nobody needs or is entitled to anything specific in life. I told this story many times. In my young days I went to Turkey which was back then, as it is now, a country where for much less money than in Europe you could buy all sorts of things (and they didn't have jeans at the time and they would exchange a lot of things for jeans) .
Anyway, I was in a carpet shop and this guy had a silk Shiraz carpet which I really liked. I asked for the price and he told me one which sounded outrageously high (compered to other , lesser, carpets that he had). I was shocked and told him that the price was too high. " yes" he said " it is dear, but you can live without one of these carpets".

I couldn't fail the logic of it. A carpet or a saxophone are not one of the necessity of life (as food or water might be) in as much as you might need one but nobody NEEDS a specific one and if you cannot afford that one you can certainly afford another one which will perform the required function all the same. What the vendor meant was that there was no immorality involved into asking an high price for a luxury item.

So, I might think that my " art" in driving a car deserves an Aston Martin, but does it mean that I cannot drive a car lesser than an Aston Martin to be a complete person? I might think that my figure requires an Armani suit, but should I go naked because I cannot afford one?

Nobody needs luxury, if you are convinced that that is what you WANT then work , save and buy what you think you need. There is no entitlement in life other than the fact that you've earned something with your work and abilities........and sometimes you have to realise than even with all of this there are certain things that you will never have and yet, your life can be as full as it should be because it is only you who creates a void for yourself which you think needs to be filled.

If you are a great player you are one with or without a ............(fill in the blank with the dream horn of your choice!) if you are not and still can afford one, you shouldn't feel guilty to do so, you probably can afford many things that for other people in the world are just a distant and impossible dream anyway.

 

[Bloo Dog]

Perhaps I can interest the OP in a lightly-used vintage Yintai saxophone.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Sure, if it is too much money for the quality it won't sell.

I disagree to some extent. Marketing and company image can play a very big role.

I have played many horns that are for me way superior to Selmers and Keilwerths, but cost less than half the price.

 

[jetmech]

Well now you are getting into quality and perceived quality. We all know that people will pay more for the name for many items. The name alone can often add a certain value to an item. But ultimately it is the consumer that decides to buy or not to buy at that price.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Well now you are getting into quality and perceived quality.

Isn't it the same thing? How can you measure the quality of a saxophone? I do it by playing it, but that is only my opinion of its quality.

Of course there are some things that can stick out as being a more objectively definable attribute in the build quality,e.g. if bits are falling off or getting bent, but the most important decider for me on the quality of a saxophone is the quality of the performance I feel I get from it.

Just look at the number of different opinions on here about what is a quality saxophone! It's nearly all about perceived quality.

 

[Bloo Dog]

Just look at the number of different opinions on here about what is a quality saxophone! It's nearly all about perceived quality.

Thank you. The Bloo Dog Cheap Chinese Magic Sax is due for release in 2013. It will include a pair of black Spandex gloves, not the cheap, white linen gloves. Spandex adds greater value.

 

[jetmech]

Isn't it the same thing? How can you measure the quality of a saxophone? I do it by playing it, but that is only my opinion of its quality.

Of course there are some things that can stick out as being a more objectively definable attribute in the build quality,e.g. if bits are falling off or getting bent, but the most important decider for me on the quality of a saxophone is the quality of the performance I feel I get from it.

Just look at the number of different opinions on here about what is a quality saxophone! It's nearly all about perceived quality.

But would you pay the keilwerth or selmer price for tose saxes that you like at half the price. Doubtful. You are willing to pay less for a lesser brand though the build quality, ergonomics, etc.. may be the same. All other things being equal many would pick the selmer or keilwerth simply for the name, so the price of the lesser know mfg has to be less in order for it to sell. There are certain attributes of actual quality vs perceived quality. Fit, finish, material etc...

 

[Kelpie]

I disagree to some extent. Marketing and company image can play a very big role.

I have played many horns that are for me way superior to Selmers and Keilwerths, but cost less than half the price.

I played a Yanagisawa A901 and a Selmer Series 2 side by side and actually preferred the Yani overall. I couldn't find anything significantly different about the sound to justify the difference, and the ergos on the Yani were better. Almost half the price.

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

in a carpet shop and this guy had a silk Shiraz carpet which I really liked. I asked for the price and he told me one which sounded outrageously high (compered to other , lesser, carpets that he had). I was shocked and told him that the price was too high. " yes" he said " it is dear, but you can live without one of these carpets".

I couldn't fail the logic of it. A carpet or a saxophone are not one of the necessity of life (as food or water might be) in as much as you might need one but nobody NEEDS a specific one and if you cannot afford that one you can certainly afford another one which will perform the required function all the same. What the vendor meant was that there was no immorality involved into asking an high price for a luxury item.

So, I might think that my " art" in driving a car deserves an Aston Martin, but does it mean that I cannot drive a car lesser than an Aston Martin to be a complete person? I might think that my figure requires an Armani suit, but should I go naked because I cannot afford one?

Nobody needs luxury, if you are convinced that that is what you WANT then work , save and buy what you think you need. There is no entitlement in life other than the fact that you've earned something with your work and abilities........and sometimes you have to realise than even with all of this there are certain things that you will never have and yet, your life can be as full as it should be because it is only you who creates a void for yourself which you think needs to be filled.

I really love this story. Thank you for sharing!

B

 

[JL]

The point I was trying to make in my previous post is there are many top saxes that are not at all too expensive, especially in the vintage sax market. You have to do some research and try out some horns. Do that, find a reputable dealer and/or tech, and you can do very well.