Started clarinet 5 months ago. Several weeks ago my instructor tried to get me to blow "fast air" at a steady pace while tonguing for the notes. It was like rubbing my belly, patting my head and chewing gum at the same time. Besides I thought my notes sounded just fine anyway, so I did not really understand his point. I think he concluded that I just needed more time. Then I saw a posting here about a free software program called "Audacity" that allows you to record yourself. So I did. Egads my notes were horrible. Especially at the beginning of a piece the note is like a bell shaped curve and sounds it. It needs to sound steady from the go. Something else to now work on along with the several thousand other things. But, I love the challenge.
Tonguing and steady air
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You were backing off on the air before you tongued?!? SHAME ON YOU!!!! 
I'm glad the Audacity program is helping you with this issue.
True, there are a LOT of things you have to remember to do while learning to play the clarinet but when they all come together at the same time..... It's a day to mark on the calendar.
I'm glad the Audacity program is helping you with this issue.
True, there are a LOT of things you have to remember to do while learning to play the clarinet but when they all come together at the same time..... It's a day to mark on the calendar.
At age 70 it takes longer, but, I can see progress a little bit each day.You were backing off on the air before you tongued?!? SHAME ON YOU!!!!
I'm glad the Audacity program is helping you with this issue.
True, there are a LOT of things you have to remember to do while learning to play the clarinet but when they all come together at the same time..... It's a day to mark on the calendar.
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Hi
sorry to disagree with your methods, but... I question the value of measuring your achievements from looking at an 'audacity' plot. The initial swell could be accounted for by normal attack if you are tonguing the note and the presence of a swell does not necessarily indicate a problem.
I would suggest a better method would just be to listen back to the recording, and better still get your teachers feedback
Jim
sorry to disagree with your methods, but... I question the value of measuring your achievements from looking at an 'audacity' plot. The initial swell could be accounted for by normal attack if you are tonguing the note and the presence of a swell does not necessarily indicate a problem.
I would suggest a better method would just be to listen back to the recording, and better still get your teachers feedback
Jim
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In order to sound steady, the embouchure must not move at all when tonguing or changing notes and the air must not stop between notes. Only the tongue should move to separate notes when not slurring. Nothing else can be accomplished until these techniques are mastered. This really applies to saxophone articulation as well.
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HI
I meant no disrespect to the OP, but I do disagree with his methods and I also understood that a forum is a place where folk can express contrary opinions. my point is essentially that looking at a graph isn't going to tell you everything you need to know to make good music!
I meant no disrespect to the OP, but I do disagree with his methods and I also understood that a forum is a place where folk can express contrary opinions. my point is essentially that looking at a graph isn't going to tell you everything you need to know to make good music!
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Nothing will tell you everything that you need to know about making good music.
But if looking at a graph helps you to see where you can make improvements than the method is acceptable for that individual.
It's similar to looking at pictures while trying to assemble the new toy, BBQ grill, book case...
If you are and audio/visual learner they come in handy.
But if looking at a graph helps you to see where you can make improvements than the method is acceptable for that individual.
It's similar to looking at pictures while trying to assemble the new toy, BBQ grill, book case...
If you are and audio/visual learner they come in handy.
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That sounds so plausible but I really don't agree. You're more or less saying that anyone who hasn't properly mastered breath control and articulation isn't making music at all.
This is a bit like saying a child gets nothing out of eating until they can use a knife and fork properly.
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Hi, I'm trying to see the OP's point of view. have just played some perfectly good notes into the computer and recorded using audacity, what i get are little bell shapes, with the flare of the bell representing the initial attack, followed by a straight section with a length that depends upon on the length of the note, followed by a short tapering off at the end. You are not going to get a flat sausage shaped graph unless you play without any attack whatsoever, and I don't think anyone is suggesting that this the right way of playing?Nothing will tell you everything that you need to know about making good music.
But if looking at a graph helps you to see where you can make improvements than the method is acceptable for that individual.
It's similar to looking at pictures while trying to assemble the new toy, BBQ grill, book case...
If you are and audio/visual learner they come in handy.
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I would have to agree with opinion. The OP should learn to listen to what is coming out of his horn. Graphs and visual aids are meaningless in the real world of making music. Staring at a graph is like staring at a tuner. It's a waste of valuable practice time.
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You know what guys, the OP is SEVENTY YEARS OLD!!!
If he/she wants to look at the notes on a graph to help make what is coming out of the end of the horn sound better than I say GO FOR IT.
Good God. I really don't see what is wrong with having a bit of a visual aid. Honestly I don't thing the entire practice session is spent looking at the computer screen.
You may not want to use the method, you may not want your younger students to use the method, but in this case there is no harm in it.
An 'elderly' person learning an instrument for thier own personal enjoyment has every right to use what ever method they want if they feel it's benificial to their own personal playing.
As long as the person doing the learning is seeing improvement we have no right to tell them that having a little fun with a computer program wrong.
We all learn differently.
If he/she wants to look at the notes on a graph to help make what is coming out of the end of the horn sound better than I say GO FOR IT.
Good God. I really don't see what is wrong with having a bit of a visual aid. Honestly I don't thing the entire practice session is spent looking at the computer screen.
You may not want to use the method, you may not want your younger students to use the method, but in this case there is no harm in it.
An 'elderly' person learning an instrument for thier own personal enjoyment has every right to use what ever method they want if they feel it's benificial to their own personal playing.
As long as the person doing the learning is seeing improvement we have no right to tell them that having a little fun with a computer program wrong.
We all learn differently.
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I'd say that any method that gives a person insight is a good method. The important thing is connecting the visuals with the ear so one can take off the training wheels eventually.
As for the age thing, ... what to say about that? I don't think 70 is so ancient. My own experience is that my aural comprehension is slower to develop than my peers who stayed in school music programs through high school. So any technological solution that helps me advance is welcome.
As for the age thing, ... what to say about that? I don't think 70 is so ancient. My own experience is that my aural comprehension is slower to develop than my peers who stayed in school music programs through high school. So any technological solution that helps me advance is welcome.
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I've learned a lot from this thread. There are lots of folks who have thought about this in ways, and to a depth I never would. For me, it seems pretty simple. There are three variables in articulation; tongue action, embouchure, air flow. Air flow should only work in concert with the tongue if you've got accents to play, and embouchure should NEVER change in classical playing. Air flow and embouchure should be identical whether you're playing long tones or staccato 16th's, right? Of course, easier said than done, and I've had students that took years to undo such bad habits. Starting at 70? Sounds like a great age to me. I play in community orchestras with wind players 75-95 years old. Don't forget, Stanley Drucker retired as principal from the NY Phil at 80. The only problem I see with electronic aids is that we tend to think that if a little reliance is good, then a lot of reliance is better. I judge band and orchestra festivals, and until it was disallowed, we'd see groups come into performance with an electronic tuner on each music stand. Needless to say, the tuners were left on throughout performance.
And the OP just learned what OP is.
Anyway, My original post was not meant to say that I was looking at the graph or plot. It was the sound or aural awakening that Audacity lit up for me. Now, thanks to all the replies here I will press my instructor to work with me on the steady air separating the notes with tonguing.
As for my age, I am only as old as I feel and I feel middle aged.
Anyway, My original post was not meant to say that I was looking at the graph or plot. It was the sound or aural awakening that Audacity lit up for me. Now, thanks to all the replies here I will press my instructor to work with me on the steady air separating the notes with tonguing.
As for my age, I am only as old as I feel and I feel middle aged.
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cpaace
I understood your description in your first post. It is the difference of a note sounding as you would imagine a bell shaped curve to look, sort of going p-mp-f-mp-p in one quick note. And I guess the music you were playing expected a clean direct note straight into a dynamic volume and sustaining it until a clean change or cessation of the note.
Delicate but positive tonguing with good breath support will come with practice and attention. Imagery can help, such as when you play with the bell pointed down, imagine it is aimed at a piece of tissue on the floor, one that can move with any dynamic. Play your note to move the paper at a steady speed - not to blow it accelerating away ever faster, but to move it at a constant rate, and stop when you stop playing.
Remember, a "p" dynamic is not a weak note, but a strong note played quietly
I understood your description in your first post. It is the difference of a note sounding as you would imagine a bell shaped curve to look, sort of going p-mp-f-mp-p in one quick note. And I guess the music you were playing expected a clean direct note straight into a dynamic volume and sustaining it until a clean change or cessation of the note.
Delicate but positive tonguing with good breath support will come with practice and attention. Imagery can help, such as when you play with the bell pointed down, imagine it is aimed at a piece of tissue on the floor, one that can move with any dynamic. Play your note to move the paper at a steady speed - not to blow it accelerating away ever faster, but to move it at a constant rate, and stop when you stop playing.
Remember, a "p" dynamic is not a weak note, but a strong note played quietly
Sorry about the confusion. You tip or illustration I know will be very helpful for me. Will try it later. And I do realize that the process is going to take a very long time and a lot of practice. However, I am enjoying it greatly.
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