[southernutahsaxman]

I have recently started practicing with a tuner again (I use the DaTuner free app on my Android phone).

It has been an eye opening experience. I thought I was much more on the money with playing in tune. I can get there with each note when I play in long tones and really concentrate on my embochure, oral cavity and throat, but when I go away from it and then come back to the same note I am still off. I know that this will take patience, time and lots of long tones. I am OK with that. I am just wondering whether there are any other ideas you all have which have helped you with tone and intonation.

One other piece of the puzzle is that I recently tweaked my setup a bit - I changed from a Morgan Vintage 8 to a Morgan Excalibur 9 Large chamber mouthpiece (not a huge change, bit a change nonetheless) and from cane reeds to Legere Signature Series synthetic reeds. I am sure part of this is just that I need to spend more time getting comfortable with this new setup. Also, I play a SA80 "series 1" tenor from 1982.

Anyway, I appreciate any thoughts you may have.

Thanks,

Joe

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[soybean]

I found “the tuning CD“ very helpful. Even just singing along with it in the car helped my ears.

 

[megwenda]

One other piece of the puzzle is that I recently tweaked my setup a bit - I changed from a Morgan Vintage 8 to a Morgan Excalibur 9 Large chamber mouthpiece (not a huge change, bit a change nonetheless) and from cane reeds to Legere Signature Series synthetic reeds. I am sure part of this is just that I need to spend more time getting comfortable with this new setup. Also, I play a SA80 "series 1" tenor from 1982.

Anyway, I appreciate any thoughts you may have.

Thanks,

Joe

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Have you tried testing with the old set up (Vintage 8 with cane reed)?

 

[John Kotches]

A very useful lesson taught by my first sax teacher after “I retiring” was to play with people that play in tune. I’m lucky to play in a big and where the section plays very well in tune. It’s made me up my game in a sax section context.

I also use the Greg Fishman and Bob Mintzer Etudes with playalongs which are excellent as well. They both play with great intonation and I use them to improve intonation on Soprano/Alto/Tenor and Bb Clarinet. The Fishman etudes Vol 1 and 2 have more instances of long held notes but they both are good.

For me, the Mintzer has some technical challenges that the Fishman books don’t so that’s also about technique building.

Another technique is to play a tune and hold notes randomly to check with a tuner.

I use all of the above to be a better player individually and as part of a section.




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[Carl H2O]

Hi,

a few quick tips

free; on Spotify - Musician’s practice partner Cello drones
paid; iPractice Pro (well worth the money)

Extensive practise with a tuner or tuning app does not really help much if you are to play with others.

 

[Sofiane]

There are a lot of tanpura apps out there, and it's a real pleasure to practice with, it helps a lot to intonate well and realize how the overtones blend together when you are in.

 

[MLucky]

One thing that helped me quite a bit was working with overtones. I started doing overtone exercises as part of my daily warm-up a few years ago mainly because I wanted to improve my ability to play altissimo, but I quickly realized there were numerous other benefits, including improved intonation. A lot of overtone exercises involve going back and forth between the root and different overtones (ie, low Bb, middle Bb, low Bb, middle F, low Bb, high D, and so on), and if you do that with a tuner, I think it helps you to "hear" the root, the octave, the third, and fifth before you play them. I think it also helps you learn to voice the different tones without changing your embouchure, which I think is helpful if you're tightening up in order play higher notes. I started out with Sigurd Rascher's "Top Tones" book, but there are many others, and lots of online tutorials as well. Good luck!

 

[southernutahsaxman]

Thanks so much for the advice and insight!

I really like the comments about playing in tune with other people. It emphasizes to me the importance of doing more transcribing and working to play in tune with the greats. That is something I need to do more of!

Also, I like the comments about overtones. I have neglected those lately. I remember my college sax professor telling me to match the tone of the overtone fingered note and the intonation of the "regular" fingered note so that I could maximize both. I will get back on that!

Lastly, forgive my ignorance. What is a "tanpura" app? Did you mean to say a "tuner" app?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[buddy lee]

Any time you tweak a setup the potential for needing to make adjustments arises.

As far as playing with a tuner, I've found it much more useful to play along with drones (like the Tuning CD) and getting the pitch in my ear rather than looking at a tuner.

 

[saxoclese]

There is an old saying that goes: "saxophones don't play out of tune---people do". All a good instrument and set-up can do is to facilitate playing with good intonation. It is up to the musician to "hear" the pitch in his/her mind and produce that pitch by lipping or "humoring" each note as required. Hours spent playing scales and adjusting notes based upon watching a tuner is wasted effort IMO. You may remember for a short period of time what it felt like to play a high A in tune, but that will be soon forgotten. What will last is hearing in your mind the pitch of that note in relation to the chord and/or the interval between itself and adjacent notes. In essence, to play with good intonation we just need to do what (good) singers do---hear the pitch. Matching pitch and tuning intervals with a fixed pitch device using your ears is invaluable because it involves listening. One of the finest band directors in the state of Utah by the name of Greg Hansen whose award winning band's intonation was always flawless would have his students deliberately make their instrument out of tune by moving the mouthpiece, headjoint, or tuning slide in or out. Then they would practice playing chorales in tune by adjusting or "humoring" each note.

One of the things I have learned to watch out for when I spend a lot of time practicing alone is that over time out of tune notes and registers can start to sound "normal". This is why it is a good idea to play in ensembles, with backing tracks, and practice listening to "drones" from time to time so this "intonation creep" doesn't start to take place.

 

[skeller047]

Just like to add here - I think playing with a tuner is a "bad idea" (TM). This gets you used to tuning with your eyes.

Playing with a drone, listening for difference tones (especially with the perfect intervals), playing to a backing track, ***RECORDING YOURSELF***, these are tuning with your ***ears***.

A tuner is OK for a ballpark check, to see if your mouthpiece is reasonably close to the right spot, or your breath support is OK today, but for the rest, use your ears.

 

[southernutahsaxman]

Awesome advice, everyone! Thanks so much for preaching for me to "tune with my ears." I remember now hearing that adage that if I tune with a tuner then I am training my eyes instead of my ears. I will definitely check out the drone track on Spotify and work more on pre-hearing notes.

I also liked the advice about hearing intervals. That is another area where I need work, for sure. I have a digital keyboard in my practice space and I will use that to help me to pre-hear the intervals and then try to match it.

Also, Saxoclese, it is fun to see a fellow Utahn here in the forum. I see you are from Springville. I grew up in Orem and went to Mountain View HS back in the early 90's.

Thanks again to everyone for the helpful insight. I feel like I have a good direction to pursue with working on my ear to brain to body connection instead of my eyes to brain to body connection.

Super helpful. Thanks!

Joe

 

[swperry1]

Awesome advice, everyone! Thanks so much for preaching for me to "tune with my ears." I remember now hearing that adage that if I tune with a tuner then I am training my eyes instead of my ears. I will definitely check out the drone track on Spotify and work more on pre-hearing notes.

I also liked the advice about hearing intervals. That is another area where I need work, for sure. I have a digital keyboard in my practice space and I will use that to help me to pre-hear the intervals and then try to match it.

Also, Saxoclese, it is fun to see a fellow Utahn here in the forum. I see you are from Springville. I grew up in Orem and went to Mountain View HS back in the early 90's.

Thanks again to everyone for the helpful insight. I feel like I have a good direction to pursue with working on my ear to brain to body connection instead of my eyes to brain to body connection.

Super helpful. Thanks!

Joe

I use a tuner app called Tunable. It has all the usual stuff: visual display, tones/ drones, transposition, and a metronome. The coolest feature is a recorder that allows you to listen to playback while receiving a visual display of your pitch. It's free.

 

[notes_norton]

When I get a new sax I sit in front of a tuner and play long tones to get an idea of the signature of the horn. I do this for as many hours as it takes to learn which way to lip each note.

Then I play with either other in-tune musicians or Band-in-a-Box (for practice) and use my ears. The initial practice with the tuner tells my reflexes which way to lip the note, and my ears with the band or BiaB app tell me when each note in tune.

After saying that, there are times when I play a note sharp or flat for expressive reasons, again using my ears to determine just how much tension I want to add.

Insights and incites by Notes

 

[Sofiane]

Lastly, forgive my ignorance. What is a "tanpura" app? Did you mean to say a "tuner" app?

Thanks,

Joe

Here, that's what I'm talkin about:

You can find a lot of this stuff in different keys and tempo though.
And there are apps for smartphone too.

 

[JL]

Thanks so much for preaching for me to "tune with my ears." I remember now hearing that adage that if I tune with a tuner then I am training my eyes instead of my ears.

+1. I'll join the choir on that!

It's fine to do a quick check with a tuner; that will give you some idea as to how in tune you are, but it won't do much to train you to play in tune. That takes your ears. I think it has to become ingrained to the point you make the necessary adjustments subconsciously. In other words, you can't just tell yourself to play in tune, it has to happen naturally, using your ear. Matching tones with a drone or another instrument is the key.

 

[Dr G]

+1. I'll join the choir on that!

It's fine to do a quick check with a tuner; that will give you some idea as to how in tune you are, but it won't do much to train you to play in tune. That takes your ears. I think it has to become ingrained to the point you make the necessary adjustments subconsciously. In other words, you can't just tell yourself to play in tune, it has to happen naturally, using your ear. Matching tones with a drone or another instrument is the key.

Oh, yes, please.

I can recall sitting with some high school students that would come to sub with my big band. They would set their horn to their tuner, and shut off their ears for the rest of the rehearsal - or until I leaned over to ask them "Do you hear the pitch of the rest of the band?"

Being in tune with your tuner is cute, but what if no one else is in tune with your tuner? Might you <gasp> be wrong?

 

[wanderso]

ALL the ear training courses I've taken require singing. Not Sinatra, simply making a noise that is on pitch.

Your voice is the instrument you have with you always and everywhere--I did a lot of exercises while walking my dog!

When you have learned to hear if you are on or off pitch with your voice, then an instrument will be gravy.

My conclusion from ear training is that it is all about intervals, steps and all the leaps, landing on pitch. Of course that is what you want to do playing an instrument, too.

Shruti boxes, organ and cello drones: all good to give you a pitch center to sing over with scale tones and chromatics.

If you have not taken an ear training class, I highly recommend finding one at your local college or on-line. It will be infuriating! But with practice, you will improve.

Blending with a section is fantastic, but the parts aren't all the same notes, right? You may not have a pitch to match. You need to hear your in-tune intervals relative to whatever pitch center the ensemble has established.

 

[betelsax]

Because tuning is environment-sensitive, first I tune up with a digital tuner.
Then, the best way for me to stay in tune is to play along with a piece and listen to the chord I'm in and a match any given note in it.
Like everything else about playing the sax, it takes patience and practice, but it is very rewarding.

Meanwhile, HERE is an excellent, in depth video on the subject of saxophone intonation.

 

[mmichel]

Just like to add here - I think playing with a tuner is a "bad idea" (TM).

While I agree that "tuning with your eyes" is a bad idea, I think that the sentiment is outdated.

Many tuners (both physical, single-purpose tuners like the Korg TM-60, and software tuners like TonalEnergy) now include a "sound-back" feature that lets you tune by ear, by playing the nearest reference pitch.

I use this feature regularly when practicing long tones and overtones.