[Angel]

This has been a wonderfully informative thread so far. Please excuse the naivete of this question, but can anyone name a present day performer whose sound most typifies the "dark" Rascher tonal concept and also one whose sound is most typical of the "bright" French school of playing.

Rascher school examples: Lawrence Gwozdz, John-Edward Kelly, Harry-Kinross White, Rascher Saxophone Quartet.

New French school examples: Claude Delangle, Vincent David, Julien Petit, Quatuor Habanera.

I agree that French-trained soloists such as Jean-Yves Fourmeau and Daniel Gauthier are more old-school in their respective approaches, but not by much. Their interpretations continue to be important, relevant, and very charismatic without showing any signs of being dated (a la Mule and his contemporaries).

I would most like to get recordings of both artists playing the same piece of music if possible...

Chances are slim-to-none, considering that most products of these differing philosophies tend to only play music written for them or their teachers (or grandteachers).

I would recommend grabbing the Rascher Quartet recording of Xenakis XAS on their CD "Europe" and Quatuor Habanera's recording of the same piece on their CD "Mysterious Morning".

If you're thinking more old school, there are some pieces that both Rascher and Mule recorded: Rameau Gavotte "Le Temple du Gloire", Creston Sonata, Ibert Concertino, Debussy Rapsodie, just to name a few. I find it very interesting tracing the familial lines back, mostly to discover that the best of the Rascher descendants have built admirably on the iconic foundation provided by Sigurd himself; while the French school has almost completely re-made itself (for the better, in my opinion) over the generations.

Click the link to my CD library below to find links to websites of just about all of these names mentioned. Many of them have audio clips.

Angel

 

[mkemp]

If you want, classicsax radio has many recordings of Rascher himself that are not available on cd anymore, as well as recordings of John Edward Kelly, James Houlik, Lawrence Gwozdz (Rascher players), and Marcel Mule, Delangle, etc. (French Players).

I have to say listening to Rascher is interesting to say the least. I suspect it has to do with the nature of the recordings, but his sound is sometimes suspect. However, the musicianship is undeniably there. At times I am unimpressed by the so called "master", yet at other times I am completely blown away, more so then any other recording of classical sax that I have heard. As for Mule's sound, I actually prefer his style of play to modern French.

 

[Angel]

I have to say listening to Rascher is interesting to say the least. I suspect it has to do with the nature of the recordings, but his sound is sometimes suspect. However, the musicianship is undeniably there. At times I am unimpressed by the so called "master", yet at other times I am completely blown away, more so then any other recording of classical sax that I have heard.

It's good that you bring up this issue. Most of the (not many) available CD recordings of Rascher's playing are from the time after which I am told he stopped practicing (Debussy Rapsodie with Bernstein/NY Phil and Ibert Concertino with Louis Krasner/Krasner Ensemble), making the listening experience very misleading as to the quality of Rascher's approach.

If you find the Rascher pedagogical video, it includes a beautiful and virtually flawless Rascher performance of Maurice Whitney's Introduction and Samba with band. There's a Rascher recording of the Frank Martin Ballade which is superb as well. His "Classical Recital" LP is a worthwhile listen if you can dig up a copy.

Angel

 

[J.Max]

I would say for the Rascher school, look for John-Edward Kelly, who I would say is the most extreme in the tonal concept of Rascher.

As for french, the old-school french sound, you could probably check out Jean-Yves Formeau. As for neo-french, Christian Wirth, Claude Delangle, and Vincent David would be good references.

As far as John-Edward Kelly goes, am I alone in not liking his sound? He is a fantastic technical player, with great musicianship, but his tone is almost hollow sounding...for Rascher players, I like Lawrence Gwozdz, Houlik (although he's a tenor player so it's a bit hard to compare him to the others) and the late David Bilger.

For French players, you can take your pick...Delangle, Sugawa, and even Rousseau and Hemke

 

[mkemp]

As far as John-Edward Kelly goes, am I alone in not liking his sound? He is a fantastic technical player, with great musicianship, but his tone is almost hollow sounding...for Rascher players, I like Lawrence Gwozdz, Houlik (although he's a tenor player so it's a bit hard to compare him to the others) and the late David Bilger.

For French players, you can take your pick...Delangle, Sugawa, and even Rousseau and Hemke

I kind of agree with you. I love his altissimo in the Larsson recording. But on his Ibert, judging but the 1 minute clips on amazon.com, he definitely sounded a bit hollow. Gwozdz I think has the best tone, there is jsut something about it that I don't find anywhere else. It's certainly reedy, but it gives it such an authentic woodwind sound. His playing in the Still Romance on the Concerto Tribute cd is prolly the most beautiful song I've ever heard. The only thing that comes even close imo is a recording I heard of Formeau (is it weird I think the 2 most beautiful sounds came from opposite spectrums?). What you think of Kelly I think of Delangle. His sound is too bright for my tastes, in some cases painfully so, and I have to turn it off cause I can't take it! I think it's more likely you'll find people agreeing with your assessment of Kelly then mine of Delangle though lol.

 

[Dannel]

Don't judge Kelly's tone entirely on the concerto CD. Listen to some of his other stuff to get a better judgment on his tone since I believe something weird was going on when they did that CD.

I actually find Delangle's tone to be less bright than most French saxophonists. It also depends and varies as to which speakers you listen to his stuff on! I remember one time listening to the Habanera quartet and thinking it was brighter than the Apollo Sax quartet or something! Then I listened to them back on my normal speakers and was relieved.

 

[dpmusic]

... What you think of Kelly I think of Delangle. His sound is too bright for my tastes, in some cases painfully so, and I have to turn it off cause I can't take it! I think it's more likely you'll find people agreeing with your assessment of Kelly then mine of Delangle though lol.

i couldn't agree more. i absolutely HATE the way delange sounds. it's terrible! his tone is very thin and lacks body. it is very painful sometimes....the softest dynamics for him are ok. the tone doesn't break up there...but mf+, i just hate it....i find it quite odd that he was mentioned as being in the same group as Sugawa, whose tone is infinitely better. in fact, i'm ashamed to be associated with the classical saxophone sound if people are going to think that delangle is what a classical saxophone sounds like......!!!

 

[A.Smith]

Have you heard Delangle on the Denisov concerto? I sure as hell wouldn't mind sounding like that! In regard to JEK I loathe his sound in the concerto cd, but have only recently heard him on other recordings and find the tone to be totally different, so I agree with the earlier statement that something weird must have been going on that day. The other recordings are much better.

 

[nitrosax]

Gwodz has SUCH a beautiful alto sound...His American Concertos recording makes me cry...I could never blow one of those Rascher setups though I dig the sound so much...

 

[Steve P]

A.Smith, you beat me to it! Delangle's Denisov Concerto recording is IMO his finest recording. Such a beautiful, full sound in all registers, with technique that is flawless, and altissimo sections that gives me nightmares!!!!!

Gwozdz is my favorite Rascher-ite as well. Such tasteful and sensitive playing! Anyone ever seen him with Diane Bisch on 'The Joy of Music'? It's on PBS and the like on occasion.

Steve P

 

[drakesaxprof]

in fact, i'm ashamed to be associated with the classical saxophone sound if people are going to think that delangle is what a classical saxophone sounds like......!!!

While I may be getting sucked into a deliberate baiting here, I find such hyperbolic overstatements to be not helpful to anyone, and suggest the absence of the capacity for more subtle judgment. To many of us, Delangle's sound is beautifully balanced, colorful, flexible, and deeply expressive. It's one of many sounds that I enjoy, and that serves as a model for my own. To each their own, to be sure, but to dismiss one of the most highly-regarded and influential saxophonists of the past thirty years out of hand is deeply unfortunate. Your recent posts in support of lip-piercing and chemically-altered playing may provide the readers of this thread with some useful perspective.

 

[BlueLight]

I agree with Drakesaxprof

Realistically if there are people who like Claude Delangle's sound, then he doesn't sound bad, just by the definition of aesthetics.
(Same goes for John-Ed Kelly, Kenny G, Charlie Parker, Dale Underwood, etc.)

 

[Demolisher]

I wonder if you know what the setup of delangle was for that concerto? And whats the deal with the unavailability of that concerto...