Today's Classical Sound
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I think this thread has gotten away from the point. I do agree that listening to today's, as well as yesterdays, best saxophonists will give one a sense of what tone colors are possible on the instrument. But can anyone chime in as to what attributes are necesary or desirable in the cultivation of 'today's classical sound'? Some of the afore-mentioned performers/pedagogues are truly talented at performing on the saxophone. However, some of these players have a tone/sound that I would avoid at all costs in my own performing.
Should 'today's classical sound' creep ever more towards the bright tone of jazz? Should it look backward to the darker, more complex tone of the vintage saxophone niche? We all should strive for our own personal sound, but, what should that sound be like?
Should 'today's classical sound' creep ever more towards the bright tone of jazz? Should it look backward to the darker, more complex tone of the vintage saxophone niche? We all should strive for our own personal sound, but, what should that sound be like?
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IMO it should be what you hear as the perfect sound for your expression, but keeping in mind the tradition, with current trends not to be overlooked. That actually gives a lot of leeway but within boundries.kingsaxello said:
I also believe it has to do with the literature you are playing. If you are playing some kinds of contemporary literature, especially if you are composing or working with composers and you all have a common concept of sound, then it's simply what is appropriate musically to that concept. In this case the overall musical effect is what is paramount and traditional concepts of sound may not be appropriate. Conversely, if this concept is radical, it would not be appropriate on some of the standard, traditional French literature and lit in that school. The Well Tempered-Klavier would not be right on a Fender Rhodes, right?
In any case, dogmatic Pi**ant squabbles over what school has a corner on authenticity has no place.
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I was thinking about this recently as I've coming back out after a while to finish my degree and trying to decide "where" to go with my sound, this is kind of a malleable period for me.
I do love Michael Hester's sound, amazing. I remember hearing as young player a recording of Sinta playing Creston Sonata that floored me, the fluty unforced sound on the 2nd mvmt, just wow.
I was impressed with Lawrence Gwozdz on his Rascher CD, the Worley sonata 2nd mvmt he has a very darkly colored, satiny sound that is neat to learn elements from.
Ties Mellema (Amstel Quartet) is great, my sound is in that vein I guess, I just ran across his solo work recently and like it a lot.
Mellema playing Scaramouche
And is this John Harle? No glasses, but I think so, 6 min. in:
Pictures - The Old Castle from Proms 2006
I do love Michael Hester's sound, amazing. I remember hearing as young player a recording of Sinta playing Creston Sonata that floored me, the fluty unforced sound on the 2nd mvmt, just wow.
I was impressed with Lawrence Gwozdz on his Rascher CD, the Worley sonata 2nd mvmt he has a very darkly colored, satiny sound that is neat to learn elements from.
Ties Mellema (Amstel Quartet) is great, my sound is in that vein I guess, I just ran across his solo work recently and like it a lot.
Mellema playing Scaramouche
And is this John Harle? No glasses, but I think so, 6 min. in:
Pictures - The Old Castle from Proms 2006
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Me too, one of my favorite current conductors, and a great composer too!
There's another mystery saxophonist on Esa-Pekka Salonen's wild Piano Concerto from this year at Proms, BBC Symphony, doubling on clarinet-
Piano Concerto - 1st Movement
That has a great sax part, fun runs and altissimo. But I'm not fond of the playing in that video, I think it's a little too jazzy in style, and there's a crazy 2 handed G# to A trill, around 7 min.
But man, Yefim Bronfman is an INSANE pianist and I love that piece. It will be recorded in LA next year. The whole work is there at YouTube.
Actually Salonen's first big piece was his Saxophone Concerto, has anyone ever played it? I have a recording with Pekka Savijoki, cool piece. It unfortunately doesn't have a piano score though.
There's another mystery saxophonist on Esa-Pekka Salonen's wild Piano Concerto from this year at Proms, BBC Symphony, doubling on clarinet-
Piano Concerto - 1st Movement
That has a great sax part, fun runs and altissimo. But I'm not fond of the playing in that video, I think it's a little too jazzy in style, and there's a crazy 2 handed G# to A trill, around 7 min.
But man, Yefim Bronfman is an INSANE pianist and I love that piece. It will be recorded in LA next year. The whole work is there at YouTube.
Actually Salonen's first big piece was his Saxophone Concerto, has anyone ever played it? I have a recording with Pekka Savijoki, cool piece. It unfortunately doesn't have a piano score though.
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I just have one comment on vibrato...
It's more of a personal suggestion, but I would stay away from the french style vibrato. It tends to be a bit 'too much' in my opinion. Try working on sneaking in you vibrato when starting it, and don't go too deep.
It's more of a personal suggestion, but I would stay away from the french style vibrato. It tends to be a bit 'too much' in my opinion. Try working on sneaking in you vibrato when starting it, and don't go too deep.
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I guess that you haven't listened to the French players of today. They are extremely sparse with vibrato -- choosing to use it as an occasional seasoning rather than a blatant pervasive undulation.MikeRoManiak said:
I highly suggest that you check out C.Delangle, J.Petit, V.David, Quatuor Habanera, and I'd be interested to know if you find their vibrato to be "too much".
Angel
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I agree with Angel, Marcel Mule may have had super super fast vibrato but French players have evolved beyond that. Jeez whenever I listen to Marcel Mule play, his vibrato is just too much for me. Although even I couldn't play vibrato that fast...
Don't forget Jean-Yves Fourmeau from that list either Angel ;o.
Don't forget Jean-Yves Fourmeau from that list either Angel ;o.
I agree very much with the current French use of Vibrato. To me, vibrato is an artistic tool rather than a constant part of the saxophone sound. I feel I can be much more expressive using vibrato in this way.
The current French players Angel listed are constantly in my CD player/Car etc. Can't get enough!!
Steve P
The current French players Angel listed are constantly in my CD player/Car etc. Can't get enough!!
Steve P
It's not because I'm Dutch.....but I melt whenever I hear Arno Bornkamp. He has such great sonority in his playing, sometimes I wish I could hear some of his notes over and over again and wish they would never end. And then, there is my teacher with even much better tone, but he is not internationally known...
About vibrato, I think it's the music that should decide where and how to use vibrato. when you can play a slow and even vibrato as well as a very fast vibrato, big and small in amplitude, than you can make any choice you want. It is also a lot easier to fit your vibrato to the saxplayer next to you who knows only to play it one way.
So, I am practising alot to get there. I play some klezmer and a very fast vibrato is often used in that kind of music.
About vibrato, I think it's the music that should decide where and how to use vibrato. when you can play a slow and even vibrato as well as a very fast vibrato, big and small in amplitude, than you can make any choice you want. It is also a lot easier to fit your vibrato to the saxplayer next to you who knows only to play it one way.
So, I am practising alot to get there. I play some klezmer and a very fast vibrato is often used in that kind of music.
You would not know him. He has chosen to be teaching mainly, to have a guarranteed income to support his family. As you will understand teaching for 4 days a week leaves him the time to practise enough for his own performances, but cannot be enough to be a performer all the time. And he would never choose to live the live of an performer. He is not very much talented, so he says, but a hard worker. And that's what he does and always has done. He studied in Rotterdam and with Londeix and Delangle.
He is also a great teacher.
There must be many more jewels that will never be famous, just because they don't feel the need to be. I have no recordings, only where he is playing soprano accomanied by organ but is a poor recording on a minidisc or something like that, in a church. sound is not so good. And he plays the bariton on the cd from the "Rotterdams saxofoonkwartet", the former Rijnmond Saxofoonkwartet. He recorded a cd with the Carmel quintet, Ich hob dich lib, where he plays klezmer. I have no recording of him playing solo so that really is a pitty although you on the Carmel cd he actually does. In 1991 the Rijnmond saxofoonkwartet recorded a cd as the Selmer saxofoon quartet( tom de Vette, Peter Stam, Henri Bok, Roeland Kapaan) with Ab Schaap and Jim Odgren. These cd's are not on your list, Angel? I know of another 4-tet, not on your list, worthwile listening to; Desaxes, they are french. Their cd is called "tetrasaxyl effervescent" would really not know where to buy it as i have only a copie, and they are hard to google. But they are fantastic performers. Fine arrangements and wonderfull playing. This really is a nice cd to make people love and discover the beauty of saxofoonmusic. Easy to listen at and very well performed.
Just found a little piece of them:
http://tv.jubii.co.uk/player/?csig=iLyROoaftYkd&sig=iLyROoaftM8C
It looks a bit hilarious but they really can play!
He is also a great teacher.
There must be many more jewels that will never be famous, just because they don't feel the need to be. I have no recordings, only where he is playing soprano accomanied by organ but is a poor recording on a minidisc or something like that, in a church. sound is not so good. And he plays the bariton on the cd from the "Rotterdams saxofoonkwartet", the former Rijnmond Saxofoonkwartet. He recorded a cd with the Carmel quintet, Ich hob dich lib, where he plays klezmer. I have no recording of him playing solo so that really is a pitty although you on the Carmel cd he actually does. In 1991 the Rijnmond saxofoonkwartet recorded a cd as the Selmer saxofoon quartet( tom de Vette, Peter Stam, Henri Bok, Roeland Kapaan) with Ab Schaap and Jim Odgren. These cd's are not on your list, Angel? I know of another 4-tet, not on your list, worthwile listening to; Desaxes, they are french. Their cd is called "tetrasaxyl effervescent" would really not know where to buy it as i have only a copie, and they are hard to google. But they are fantastic performers. Fine arrangements and wonderfull playing. This really is a nice cd to make people love and discover the beauty of saxofoonmusic. Easy to listen at and very well performed.
Just found a little piece of them:
http://tv.jubii.co.uk/player/?csig=iLyROoaftYkd&sig=iLyROoaftM8C
It looks a bit hilarious but they really can play!
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The-A-Sax, please do enlighten us with your instructors name, Im sure that someone on this board may have heard of him.
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This has been a wonderfully informative thread so far. Please excuse the naivete of this question, but can anyone name a present day performer whose sound most typifies the "dark" Rascher tonal concept and also one whose sound is most typical of the "bright" French school of playing. I would most like to get recordings of both artists playing the same piece of music if possible to compare both "extremes" of the tonal spectrum of the instrument. Thanks.
John
John
I would say for the Rascher school, look for John-Edward Kelly, who I would say is the most extreme in the tonal concept of Rascher.
As for french, the old-school french sound, you could probably check out Jean-Yves Formeau. As for neo-french, Christian Wirth, Claude Delangle, and Vincent David would be good references.
As for french, the old-school french sound, you could probably check out Jean-Yves Formeau. As for neo-french, Christian Wirth, Claude Delangle, and Vincent David would be good references.
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