[playatsax]

I've got a nice little soprano, "the woodwind." It's got two necks.

-The straight neck has a raspy tone and a good response, but the horn doesn't play in tune with itself, each note requiring a different response.
-The curved neck has a sweet tone, great response and plays in tune with itself with each note being very consistent with the other notes around it. The problem is that I can't get it in tune. The mouthpiece bottoms out at the end of the mouthpiece chamber, and the instrument still plays flat against a tuner or piano. I can't get the horn any shorter.

I've thought about asking my tech to cut about 1/4 off the neck so that I can get it in tune, but I wonder if there are other ideas.

Please help.

 

[Grumps]

I've got a nice little soprano...

Obviously not. Unless it's human error. Let another player try it before cutting it.

 

[playatsax]

Been there done that. I've read of other soprano players (mostly vintage) trimming their neck to get them in tune. I've also read of some real butcher jobs ruining them. While it does make SOME sense, I am reluctant.

 

[ericdano]

That is insane. How about trying different mouthpieces and chamber sizes before cutting the horn.....

 

[lhoffman]

Keep in mind that with a vintage horn, your only option is to shorten it (if that's really what's needed). You have the advantage of two piece horn, why not try different necks first? By the time you pay your repairman for the work, you might be spending more than for what you can get, say, a Yamaha G2 on ebay. Taking 1/4" off the top of your horn could also significantly affect the effectiveness of the octave vent.

 

[Dave Dolson]

Before you try cutting the neck, make sure you have another one of the same design to replace the one that was ruined.

Not all soprano mouthpieces have the same internal length to the barrel. Some soprano mouthpieces have shorter barrel-receivers than others. I have one in my collection that has such a short neck-receiver (barrel) that the piece shoves all the way on the neck and still plays flat. That is a Runyon (although I do have other Runyons that are deep enough to come to pitch). That internal measurement is easy enough to record, then compare to other mouthpieces. DAVE

 

[playatsax]

While I know mouthpieces come in different chamber lengths, didn't expect much from soprano pieces only becuase of their small size. It's better than removing and replacing the player. Gives me something to work on.

 

[griff136]

I would try all avenues before lopping off a portion of your crook. I would also get a "seasoned" sop player - i.e someone who's first instrument is a sop - to gie yours a blow. I'm not questioning your ability to play the sop in tune, its just that IMHO the smaller the sax the more difficult it is to tame. It may well be that you have a "duffer" and no matter what you do it may not play in tune. The problem could also be in the venting of the keywork.

I would try as others have suggested different crooks and mouthpieces, but as you have already mentioned, using your 2 crooks, neither of them play in tune. Without sounding blunt, I suspect you could have a nice looking ornament as opposed to a nice sounding sax.

I thinK your first port of call though should be a decent tech to get his/her opinion.

Good luck and lets us know how you get on.

 

[abadcliche]

Without sounding blunt, I suspect you could have a nice looking ornament as opposed to a nice sounding sax.

I thinK your first port of call though should be a decent tech to get his/her opinion.

Good luck and lets us know how you get on.

My thoughts exactly. If your horn has such intractable intonation issues that taking a hacksaw to the neck seems like a reasonable idea, you probably have problems a hacksaw won't fix.

I'm not sure where this idea came from that cutting off the end of a sax neck will simply make your horn play sharper- perhaps from 12M players? Cutting off the end of your neck will do more than just be a different way to push your mouthpiece on farther. It will change the internal volume of a very sensitive spot and it will move the nodal points farther down the taper of the neck to a place with a different internal volume. Things will get weird (intonation will change, probably for the worse, and your octave pips may not be in a spot where they will work right), and your chances of fixing a problem this way are miniscule- the same odds that a saxophone manufacturer took a good design and simply added a 1/4" on the top. Nobody does that if they design it themselves, and nobody who copies a horn makes everything else right except making it too long on the neck end.

Try different mouthpieces, have other folks play it, take it to a tech, and if you find yourself thinking about cutting the neck, save up for a new soprano first so if on the off chance it DOES work you not only have beat the odds but you've got money in your pocket. And if it doesn't work, you can go buy a horn that does.

 

[Dr G]

While I know mouthpieces come in different chamber lengths, didn't expect much from soprano pieces only becuase of their small size. It's better than removing and replacing the player. Gives me something to work on.

You need to consider chamber volume as well. There exists a great difference between a squeeze-chamber and one with a large chamber.

OTOH and OBTW: Yo may have one of the sops that give offshore sops a bad name. Some have truly elusive intonation.

 

[playatsax]

Thanks to all of you. I really don't think I have a lemon. I got it from a friend who played it regularly, and played it well. He has since moved away and I can't get him to play it with me.

This morning I played three different mouthpieces: Link 6*, Yamaha 4c and one of Bill Street's pieces. After putting them through their paces, I started changing ligatures, which had a large impact on tone, intonation and response. I guess I have some work to do. Maybe after spending hours on it today, it taught me how to play it better.

 

[captain blowhard]

Throw it away and buy a real soprano!

 

[playatsax]

Throw it away and buy a real soprano!

Apparently you didn't read the part where I got it from a friend that "played it regularly and played it well" For that reason I can assume it is a real soprano. The assumption that disposable cash is in abundance on this website is evident in your response. Thanks for the help, blowhard.

 

[Dr G]

Thanks to all of you. I really don't think I have a lemon. I got it from a friend who played it regularly, and played it well. He has since moved away and I can't get him to play it with me.

"Played it regularly" may be the key to "played it well". Some people develop an ability to compensate for off-pitch notes. On the other hand, if you didn't listen critically to intonation, you may not have noticed. Some horns don't sound so obviously off if you don't hear them, for instance, played slowly in the context of sustaining chords.

G'luck with the horn.

 

[alljoe]

ive seen so many of these threads say the sops have intonation problems i have a little different question - why cant the manufacturers fix this?

 

[Dave Dolson]

alljoe: I suspect the reason these out-of-tune sopranos were made (and still are being made) is because the tolerances are so small compared to the bigger horns. I don't think manufacturers take the specs on a blueprint seriously enough and don't always adhere to acceptable tolerances. I've measured horns before and found some major differences among the necks of same models.

My Woodwind soprano (a curved) was unplayable because of poor intonation . . . and I know how to blow in tune. DAVE

 

[playatsax]

Dr G

Thanks for your insight. I may have not been as clear in my initial posting. Using the curved neck the entire instrument is in tune with itself (note to note) but the entire instrument is consistently 3-5 cents flat, through the entire range of the instrument. While I can pinch it up, its not ideal, and if I were playing in a colder environment, I can't make the instrument any shorter becuase the mouthpiece is already bottomed out.

Your insight into chamber volume and those thoughts from Dave Dolson, Griff and Abadcliche are very helpful.

Thanks

 

[Grumps]

... but the entire instrument is consistently 3-5 cents flat...

Just play Coltrane on your soprano and no one will notice...

 

[Dr G]

Christmas and Coltrane...

What's next? :twisted:

 

[Dave Dolson]

Grumps: Hilarious! Still laughing . . . DAVE