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Discussion Starter #1
If your going to send x & $ for pvt lessons:
1. Always come prepared---DA!! practice. If you don't like to practice watch MTV for your music fun

2. Arrive 15' early to
listen to the cat ahead of ya
get your horn out & ready to play-- reeds is on & wet
music folder is orgainized
payment done/check ready etc

3. DON'T MAKE SMALL TALK WITH YOUR TEACHER (Unless after lesson on his time) this should not be a way to hide that you didn't practice

4. If You Don't Fear Your Teacher-------

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FIND ANOTHER PRIVATE LESSON TEACHER.
When you go to a lesson you should always have a little "stage fright" feeling. Even if you are well prepared your teacher should always give you the feeling that he or she will still demand for more--- that is how you improve. You want a DEMANDING TASK-MASTER. A friend -type relationship can greatly inhibit a highly productive student-teacher encounter--your "expensive" lesson
 

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hey, i'm all up for 1 and 2,
but i friendly teacher student relationship is always good, and talking is good aswell, you learn a surprising amount from talking, alright, keep small talk and gossip for the end of the lesson,
but having lessons shouldn't be about draining your money's worth out of every lesson, that's just absurd.
your teacher will teach you what they need to teach you or have planned to in that time space so they won't talk if theres a lot you have to get through
 

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Discussion Starter #3
SearjeantSax said:
hey, i'm all up for 1 and 2,
but i friendly teacher student relationship is always good, and talking is good aswell, you learn a surprising amount from talking, alright, keep small talk and gossip for the end of the lesson,
but having lessons shouldn't be about draining your money's worth out of every lesson, that's just absurd.
your teacher will teach you what they need to teach you or have planned to in that time space so they won't talk if theres a lot you have to get through
Interesting-- some good points
 

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I don't know, some of your points make alot of sence. But it seems that you are all about playing the horn, when your with your private lesson teacher. It is usually a good thing though to talk about some stuff. While your getting set up. I have learned alot of stuff from just talk to them. They have knowledge that you can tap, and learn from.
 

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Carbs said:
I don't know, some of your points make alot of sence. But it seems that you are all about playing the horn, when your with your private lesson teacher. It is usually a good thing though to talk about some stuff. While your getting set up. I have learned alot of stuff from just talk to them. They have knowledge that you can tap, and learn from.
Very true, particularly for younger persons. A good teacher can be a valuable mentor for a person in the process of defining who he/she is and what kind of role music and musicianship are to have in one's life.

However, in thinking about what one needs from a private teacher, the age and goals of the student are also a factor. For example, in my case and at my age a private lesson is definately "all about playing the horn". I'm pretty clear about my goals and where playing fits into my life and am not looking for a "mentor" beyond working on improving my playing. Which is not to say that I won't be open to seeing things in a new way should my teacher serve up an "aha" experience in the course of a lesson. But generally for myself, I'd endorse the "rules" set out by the originator of this thread.

Best regards, Ruth
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Difference between teacher "talking" and student "BSing" to get out of playing caz he ain't ready. Sure to teach one must talk to the student
 

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I'm a PT. Have been for the past 10 years. The ages of my students range anywhere from 10 - 50+ years. There are some lessons where all we do is talk. There are many 'musical' lessons to be learned that don't involve playing at all.

As for fearing your teacher,,, That's a load of crap.
The only thing you need to fear is your own guilty concience for coming to a lesson ill prepared.

The only 'Demanding Task-master' should be the student. If you're not dedicated enough to put in the time to learn what the teacher has assigned you have no business taking lessons in the first place. You're wasting time that teacher could be spending with a more dedicated student.
 

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bandmommy said:
As for fearing your teacher,,, That's a load of crap.
The only thing you need to fear is your own guilty concience for coming to a lesson ill prepared.
You know, somehow I think there's little danger of your students treating you with anything less than the greatest respect, bandmommy! If not, you'd probably have them in a headlock, like Gabriel! ;)
 

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My first private music instructor taught me more about music and being a musician than every teacher I have had since, at all levels. I did not fear him, in fact he was/is a very close friend. I think having a quality teacher early is probably more influential than having a demanding task master. I have learned specific aspects later from different professors, but the first teacher sets the tone for your musical experience and can turn you off from music for good if you have the wrong sort of person.

Most teachers know when the student doesn't have the materials prepared. A good teacher can still pack in 30 minutes of productive lesson without beating up the kid so they fear coming back. I kept notes on all my students lessons, and some of the most prolific BSers became the best musicians. You've got to wait for the light to come on in them and then be there as they make leaps forward to keep their ego in check so they don't get hit in the face by a school change. High school or college can flatten a promising student who believes they are hot stuff before they get there.
 

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HOUSTON NONET said:
1. Always come prepared---DA!! practice. If you don't like to practice watch MTV for your music fun

2. Arrive 15' early to listen to the cat ahead of ya, get your horn out & ready to play-- reeds is on & wet
music folder is orgainized, payment done/check ready etc . . .
bandmommy said:
As for fearing your teacher,,, That's a load of crap. . . .The only 'Demanding Task-master' should be the student. . . .
Houston's #1 is a no-brainer in my book. I also agree with the idea of being prompt, focused, and efficient, which #2 and #3 address. I usually have a written agenda of things I want to accomplish in the lesson - something my teacher encourages me to do; he might not do likewise with a very young or inexperienced player. My agenda includes all the questions that came up since our last lesson and that I will never remember if I don't write them down. On the other hand, some of us, like me, don't have a convenient space to take our horns out or a cat ahead of us to listen to. BTW, I'm not sure why it helps to listen to the previous cat.

I'm totally with bandmommy on the fearing your teacher thing. I realize that there may be people for whom fearing their music teacher "works", but I'd hate to go through life that way, nor can I think of a faster way to suck all the joy right out of music. I've had three outstanding music teachers in the last 45 years, and I've had an excellent relationship with each one and his family. The business of teaching music effectively is not strictly business, IMHO.
 

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Carl H. said:
High school or college can flatten a promising student who believes they are hot stuff before they get there.
You've got that right.

I encourage ALL of my students that are still in Middle and High School to go to Solo & Ensemble. They think they're pretty hot stuff until they hear another kid playing the same piece, or something way more difficult BETTER.
I have to keep reminding some that even though they're the 'best' here in Ionia, out in the real world, there's always someone better.

Rooty:

I employ a 3 strike lesson policy.
If a student comes to 3 lessons in a month not prepared, I have a little 'talk' with the parents. They have the choice of ending the lessons, or overseeing the practice time at home to be sure the lesson material is at least attempted.
If they come to the next lesson and haven't worked on the assignment, I tell the parent not to bring them back.
I make it a point not to overload the student. Usually 1 scale by memory a month, and short pieces dealing with either tone or technique.
Everything is written down and dated in ink on a sticky note for the kid, and in my lesson planner. The little worms can't wriggle out of it by saying they didn't know what they were supposed to work on. ;)
 

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I agree with those who disagree about the fear factor.

Learning is a process of discovery. Teaching is the management of that process. Fear and intimidation have no place in that relationship.

Arrive 15' early...
What if the driveway isn't that long?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Again not intimidation--- fear of what your teacher will say when you are not doing your best (practicing etc). Fine pros will tell you when you practice you should play each note you play like you are performing for a audience. Same for your lesson. If you don't have that edge before you go into your lesson you are missing out on a skill you need to learn-- controling your anxiety in a performace situation. When your teacher becomes your close friend you need stay freinds but consider another teacher;)
 

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...fear of what your teacher will say...
Again, I disagree. If that would be your approach to teaching, I would not want you as a teacher, particularly for children.

Fundamentals of behavior modification (and animal training :)):

Two kinds of behavior, appropriate and inappropriate.

Three kinds of reinforcement, positive (conveys approval), negative (conveys disapproval), and none (ignores the behavior).

Positive reinforcement (praise, rewards) of appropriate behavior is effective.

Negative reinforcement (scolding, punishment) of inappropriate behavior is ineffective.

Withholding positive reinforcement effectively conveys disapproval and gets the best results.
 

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Houston, how many times to you want to hear "No"?

I, too, disagree on the FEAR YOUR TEACHER. What a steaming load.

How 'bout "Develop confidence!"

The edge you feel when going on stage to perform should be the excitement of sharing your best performance with people that came to hear you. Why fear the moment?

If fear is where you live, don't forget to wear dark pants. :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Dr G said:
Houston, how many times to you want to hear "No"?

I, too, disagree on the FEAR YOUR TEACHER. What a steaming load.

How 'bout "Develop confidence!"

The edge you feel when going on stage to perform should be the excitement of sharing your best performance with people that came to hear you. Why fear the moment?

If fear is where you live, don't forget to wear dark pants. :shock:
With all do respect Doc something tells me you ain't seen much time performing on stage. Cool but at least listen to the ones that have-- much writeen about this aspect of performance.:D
 

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Some folks just seem to rise to the challenge when confronted with negative reinforcement, and yeah... others will wilt. It's really going to depend on your personality. I think the disdain for negative reinforcement comes from the whole free-lovin' 70's feel good movement. Such disdain has been ingrained ever since throughout our society by the media, television shows, what have you. I guess it's really a matter of what you want. If it's to feel good, then yeah, can the negative reinforcement. But if it's excellence you are after... well then, you use what the situation calls for; and sometimes that means someone has to play the heavy.
 

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Fear ALL CAPS, bold type and those who can't relate that a good conversation about music is always a valued lesson.

FWIW, I'm always 15 minute early because I can't wait to get started.
 

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HOUSTON NONET said:
With all do respect Doc something tells me you ain't seen much time performing on stage.
You operate in a vacuum of knowledge, Frank, but don't let that slow you down.

HOUSTON NONET said:
Cool but at least listen to the ones that have-- much writeen about this aspect of performance.:D
Much has been written about a lot of stuff but that doesn't make it true for everyone. There are others that write of clarity and confidence. I'm sorry that you've never experienced it.
 
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