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I've heard a few comments that such a such a mouthpiece has a sweet spot as far as tip opening. Is there any validity to such an idea?
Tip opening size complementing certain mouthpieces?
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I think there may be.
Certainly with the "old standards" (Link metal for tenor, Meyer HR for alto, Selmer Soloist, Dukoff for tenor, Berg for baritone) there are kind of "typical" tip sizes that appear over and over. Some of it might be related to chamber/baffle/etc. design, and some might be related to the way those companies typically made their facing curves.
Certainly with the "old standards" (Link metal for tenor, Meyer HR for alto, Selmer Soloist, Dukoff for tenor, Berg for baritone) there are kind of "typical" tip sizes that appear over and over. Some of it might be related to chamber/baffle/etc. design, and some might be related to the way those companies typically made their facing curves.
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You will get a lot of opinions!
My personal opinion is that it's often just only a matter of taste. I own and have play tested tenor pieces from tip 3 to tip 12* and prefer the bigger tips, while others prefer the same models in smaller tips.
That being said, some types of mouthpieces are more designed for smaller tips (especially those with huge chambers without baffle) and some work better with bigger tips (very high baffle pieces for instance).
With the right reed they can all work very well.
My personal opinion is that it's often just only a matter of taste. I own and have play tested tenor pieces from tip 3 to tip 12* and prefer the bigger tips, while others prefer the same models in smaller tips.
That being said, some types of mouthpieces are more designed for smaller tips (especially those with huge chambers without baffle) and some work better with bigger tips (very high baffle pieces for instance).
With the right reed they can all work very well.
Grafton + TH & C alto || Naked Lady 10M || TT soprano || Martin Comm III
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It may depend on whether the manufacture can be bothered to change the baffle in relation to tip size. I'm sure some do but most don't.
If it is a low baffle, it matters a bit less (IMO)
I only have two models of baritone mouthpiece. Each model (with different baffle) is only sold (as stock) in one specific facing because that is what works best. Sure people can order custom sizes (as we used to be able to with Dave Guardala who did the same thing)
I would question the question slightly, in that tip opening means very little by itself. The equation should at least include curve length and type.
But still the ideal for each make/model may still be subjective.
If it is a low baffle, it matters a bit less (IMO)
I only have two models of baritone mouthpiece. Each model (with different baffle) is only sold (as stock) in one specific facing because that is what works best. Sure people can order custom sizes (as we used to be able to with Dave Guardala who did the same thing)
I would question the question slightly, in that tip opening means very little by itself. The equation should at least include curve length and type.
But still the ideal for each make/model may still be subjective.
There might be something to that. Just anecdotally, recently I had a chance to play two tip openings (6 and 7) on a Theo Wanne NY Bros side to side, and tone wise they were pretty much exactly the same, just one required more air than the other. Then I played a S-80 C* next to a D, and that was like 2 completely different mouthpieces. It was really weird. Granted, the D S-80 was new and the C* was old when I got it 20 years ago, so that might have effected it, but still, I wouldn't have expected that much variance.
This is a deep subject. I believe it is a fact that many players will eventually settle on a Link-style mouthpiece in the #7 range, or at least it seems that way judging by comments as well as mouthpiece sales data. However, the rest of them, still a lot of players, will be favoring mouthpieces of all kinds and all facings. I think the 'sweet spot' facing for any mouthpiece depends entirely on the individual player. Then you have the mouthpieces that only have one facing within a model, like the Guardalas. These probably would serve to demonstrate the ultimate expression of the 'sweet spot' because the maker crafted a single design for each model, and only small variations due to hand-finishing exist in the tip measurements of various examples within a model.
I think most all players with some experience settle on a tip opening because they also typically tend to play the same basic kind of mouthpiece for long periods and get used to a certain strength/design reed to go with it. So when they try new mouthpieces, they are usually in a similar type and tip opening. But another experienced player playing the same kind of mouthpiece might prefer a more closed tip, and they both might sound great. So is there really a 'sweet spot' for each type of mouthpiece? I have to say no, not for everyone, but every individual player certainly will find the mouthpiece that has the 'sweet spot' he's looking for in whatever mouthpiece type and facing he likes.
What about the #7 Link that so many favor - isn't that a 'sweet spot'? Again, no. The reason so many play that combination is that they wish to sound like everyone else playing the same thing, and a #7 is a very versatile facing.
I think most all players with some experience settle on a tip opening because they also typically tend to play the same basic kind of mouthpiece for long periods and get used to a certain strength/design reed to go with it. So when they try new mouthpieces, they are usually in a similar type and tip opening. But another experienced player playing the same kind of mouthpiece might prefer a more closed tip, and they both might sound great. So is there really a 'sweet spot' for each type of mouthpiece? I have to say no, not for everyone, but every individual player certainly will find the mouthpiece that has the 'sweet spot' he's looking for in whatever mouthpiece type and facing he likes.
What about the #7 Link that so many favor - isn't that a 'sweet spot'? Again, no. The reason so many play that combination is that they wish to sound like everyone else playing the same thing, and a #7 is a very versatile facing.
The only mouthpiece I have two tip openings for is an alto metalite, the M5 at .080 and the M7 at .090. The M7 also has a longer facing. I found the M7 noticeably darker than the M5, in a good way.
Not sure if this is a general rule or only on this mouthpiece.
Not sure if this is a general rule or only on this mouthpiece.
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That's a general rule for the same make/model of mouthpiece (that's why I play a 10* Link, the smaller tips are too bright for my liking).
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I agree that it depends.
I find my pieces sound good through different sizes but I hand make and play test every piece. Baffles and facing lengths are altered accordingly. If it is spit out by a machine there are typically pieces that sound better in various sizes. It also depends on the player. Some people can make a large Link sound good, others are not able to adequately focus their air supply so the pieces can get really spread and lacking a certain something.
I find my pieces sound good through different sizes but I hand make and play test every piece. Baffles and facing lengths are altered accordingly. If it is spit out by a machine there are typically pieces that sound better in various sizes. It also depends on the player. Some people can make a large Link sound good, others are not able to adequately focus their air supply so the pieces can get really spread and lacking a certain something.
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When I bought my first mouthpiece that didn't come in the case with a saxophone, the dude who sold it to me (a 6* STM) said the star had a little something extra versus the non-star. I had no clue. Apparently he didn't either, or he saw an easy mark. Later on as I got better I learned a little bit. The sales guy is a really good player...wonder if he still believes the star pieces have a little more.It seems like many more tenor players play a Link STM in a 6* or 7* instead of a 7. Must be something about that star.
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Mostly I was curious as I've heard comments about certain mouthpieces to the effect that "sounds best in a 7*..." or "I like that [mouthpiece] in an 8, sounds fuller..."
Me I still find my 6* NYSTM a challenge to play, so in new mouthpiece consideration I ignore anything with a larger tip opening (note that some mouthpieces are sold in 7 as smallest tip opening), though I'm wondering if it is more the large chamber that challenges me or some other aspect of the NYSTM. I'm sure in time I'll adapt but I've also considered another mouthpiece that may suit me better at this point in time. So going down to a 5* may help but perhaps a .95 tip opening is fine for me and I merely need to change to a med-large chamber or some other type of baffle, etc.
Me I still find my 6* NYSTM a challenge to play, so in new mouthpiece consideration I ignore anything with a larger tip opening (note that some mouthpieces are sold in 7 as smallest tip opening), though I'm wondering if it is more the large chamber that challenges me or some other aspect of the NYSTM. I'm sure in time I'll adapt but I've also considered another mouthpiece that may suit me better at this point in time. So going down to a 5* may help but perhaps a .95 tip opening is fine for me and I merely need to change to a med-large chamber or some other type of baffle, etc.
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I once play-tested five new Selmer Soloist Reissue alto pieces -- 3 Es, 2 Fs. Each played differently from the others. Some makers may be able to achieve a high level of consistency & quality control; regardless, small variances can have a large effect.
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Way back when I was getting into larger chambered pieces I bought a Morgan 7L jazz for tenor. I had a hard time at first getting on with it, and bought a 6L, and went back and forth between them for a bit. To me the 6L felt too "contained" and not versitile enough for me, while the 7L just felt like it had so much more to offer from a sonic palette perspective. I bagged the 6 and kept the 7, and just worked my way into where it felt comfortable. Still play it to this day, for a ton of different musical situations....
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Some will say links have a sweet spot in smaller tips. They are different than larger tips. Some would say the sweet spot is in a large tip. You need to remember that the term sweet spot is entirely subjective....a simple matter of personal preference.
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I've had a few links in the 6-7 range that were duds.
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Interestingly I just heard Theo Wanne talk about facing curves in relation to tip openings. Perhaps this has something to do with the "sweet spot" in tip openings for a particular mouthpiece.
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I agree with this.^^^^
I also wonder how anyone can really know unless they have one of every size in every piece and give them all the same play time to find out.
Now I'm sure there's someone out there that will claim they've done that to which I would say toro mierda.
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Back in the 2013, Selmer updgraded the design and the facing.
Now all the S80 have longer facings and thicker rails.
Old C*: 1,70 mm / 22 mm
New D: 1,75 mm / 24 mm
Given that 1" = 25,4mm, they are indeed different pieces who share 90% of the original design but different specs.
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