Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I've been rehearsing the transcription of Kenny Garrett's solo on Equinox. The most coolest place on the solo is a place where he plays very outside to the minor blues progression. Can you analyze for me what's behind this lick? I can't figure it out myself...

Bars 50-52:

IMG_20180723_172922 (1).jpg
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Hi Steve,

Yes, the original version of bar 52 didn't sound correct so I corrected it.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2016, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
12,974 Posts
What a great solo! I have no idea what Kenny is thinking. He is in Bb minor and it seems like the lead up to measure 50 he is thinking Bb major then slides to A major. Measure 51 and 52 seems like a pattern based off of mostly the Eb7 mixed with Eb7 altered scale (but not 100%). Many times over Bb minor players use Eb7 lines. Beat 1 of 51 is Eb7, beat 2 and 3 is Eb altered, beat 4 is back to Eb7 sliding into E melodic minor in measure 52 which is also Eb altered. That's my take, but what was he thinking......no idea. Maybe he was just winging it and not thinking at all.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2016, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
12,974 Posts
What a great solo! I have no idea what Kenny is thinking. He is in Bb minor and it seems like the lead up to measure 50 he is thinking Bb major then slides to A major. Measure 51 and 52 seems like a pattern based off of mostly the Eb7 mixed with Eb7 altered scale (but not 100%). Many times over Bb minor players use Eb7 lines. Beat 1 of 51 is Eb7, beat 2 and 3 is Eb altered, beat 4 is back to Eb7 sliding into E melodic minor in measure 52 which is also Eb altered. That's my take, but what was he thinking......no idea. Maybe he was just winging it and not thinking at all.
I would approach it this way. Put on a track in Bb minor or a Bb minor blues and just practice sliding out of Bb minor into Bb major then a major and back to Bb minor. Then try morphing back and forth between Eb7 and Eb altered (or e melodic minor if that is easier) over the Bb minor. at first it will sound rough. Half the battle is sounding confident. If a insecure high school kid played that with less confidence you would think he is totally messing up. Kenny Garrett plays it with such confidence that it doesn't matter how it sounds.........it's just right!!
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks Steve for your great insights! I'll definately try those ideas!

This is, if not the most favorite, one of my favorite Kenny Garrett solos!
 

·
Moderator
Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
Joined
·
29,313 Posts
Hi,

I've been rehearsing the transcription of Kenny Garrett's solo on Equinox. The most coolest place on the solo is a place where he plays very outside to the minor blues progression. Can you analyze for me what's behind this lick?
You cannot analyse wrong notes. They are just wrong notes played in a way that sounds good. D natural on Bb minor? There is no way to analyse that in a way that you can teach people how it works.

Or: if you play cool licks fast enough it really doesn't matter if it fits the changes or not. I'm sure many great jazz players have survived on that notion.
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,220 Posts
You cannot analyse wrong notes. They are just wrong notes played in a way that sounds good. D natural on Bb minor? There is no way to analyse that in a way that you can teach people how it works.
Thank you Pete! I thought I was just not smart enough to figure this one out. I'm afraid I'm just not good enough or confident enough to hang on the maj3rd over a minor chord and somehow make it sound good. As a passing tone, sure, but a quarter note firmly on the down beat? I can't pull that one off. More power to Kenny to be able to do it, though...

I have, on very rare occasions, played wrong notes that ended up sounding great, purely by accident. So it can happen, but I don't trust myself to try it on purpose.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2016, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
12,974 Posts
You cannot analyse wrong notes. They are just wrong notes played in a way that sounds good. D natural on Bb minor? There is no way to analyse that in a way that you can teach people how it works.
You can play anything over anything........whose to say if it is wrong or not..........It certainly sounds cool to me.......
 

·
Moderator
Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
Joined
·
29,313 Posts
You can play anything over anything........whose to say if it is wrong or not..........It certainly sound cool to me.......
I agree, I would just advise anyone: just don't try and analyse it and make up some academic reason - there is none I can think of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,013 Posts
Sounds to me as if he is playing some 4th or 5th patterns, and letting THAT lead him into never-never land. I agree, one of his best :) The major third in a minor key is a device he has used a lot, going back to his days with Miles.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2016, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
12,974 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Thanks for sharing, it's a pretty amazing solo! To me the line hints at a lot of chromatic movement. Given that the pickup to bar 50 is a G minor pentatonic, if I had to harmonize it I would put G- for two beats then F#- for two beats. Bar 51 could be a lot of different things, if I had to harmonize it I would probably say Eb, D, C#-, C- (one beat each) or F-, E-, C#-, C-, then Bbmaj7 in bar 52. Maybe there's some sort of downward movement by thirds happening, so the whole thing could be something like G- F#- | Eb D Bsus Bb | or something like that. It's cool that the line is ambiguous enough to suggest a lot of different possibilities.
 

·
Just a guy who plays saxophone.
Joined
·
3,970 Posts
Perhaps he just played what he was hearing at the moment and figured the band geeks could fight over it later. Great solo. Who cares why?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,073 Posts
Sounds and looks to me like a Coltrane Matrix. People don’t play the 1,2,3,5 or 1,3,5,7 chord tones straight in live solos usually when presenting this matrix. They also don’t usually change chords directly on Beats 1 and 3. It is usually well hidden with implied tonality changes, often offset by an eight note. Think how Charlie Parker offset chord changes with interesting rhythms and add the Coltrane matrix to it. That is how the top players use this device.
The key of Db major’s relative minor is Bb minor.
Starting at the measures in question, follow this Coltrane matrix.
DbM7 E7|AM7 C7|FM7 Ab7|DbM7 then continues a little on the same matrix.
It should come as no surprise that Kenny uses this type of device as he is such a disciple of Coltrane.

As to notes going fast and it not being able to be analyzed, if that were true we could never learn from the greats. There is absolutely a difference between an amateur playing fast nonsense notes with no sense of tonality and a master with a controlled and well intentioned set of fast notes. If you can’t hear the difference, keep listening to music very closely until you can. :)
 

·
Moderator
Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
Joined
·
29,313 Posts
Never let wrong notes get in the way of a great solo!

In other words notes can be right or "wrong" against any given chord at any one time. What can make seemingly wrong notes right is the context of where they have been and where they are going to. The human brain likes patterns, and sometimes a nice pattern that has "wrong" notes will trump the right notes if they are more random (or, indeed, less lyrical)

Ornette Coleman had a great knack on those first albums of playing free music but with intense lyricism.

As to notes going fast and it not being able to be analyzed, if that were true we could never learn from the greats. There is absolutely a difference between an amateur playing fast nonsense notes with no sense of tonality and a master with a controlled and well intentioned set of fast notes.
But there is not necessarily any correlation between a great analyst and a great player. I'm sure there are great players who are not great analysts. It's a case of almost subconsciously hearing the notes to play.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,073 Posts
The “wrong” notes almost always sound the best when presented by a master.
These notes would be better served called “chosen” notes.

I do have to say I strongly disagree with the statement that if you play cool licks fast enough, it doesn’t matter if it fits the changes or not. The jazz legends absolutely didn’t do that. A super cool pick played fast in the wrong key will still sound displeasing to the listener.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top