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Theo Wanne Mouthpieces and their ligatures

21K views 114 replies 34 participants last post by  Spooner 
I like the integrated ligatures on the metal pieces, but agree that the cap is abysmal. I always used an FL cap with mine. You can buy them at WWBW or Weinermusic for like $12 and they fit perfectly.
 
Blue loctite is on the original wanne screws. Great stuff to have around for lots of uses...non sax related as well.
Yes, though clear nail polish works too. I had a problem with the screws on my ligature repeatedly coming loose and the nail polish fixed it.

I also use it for the adjustment screws on my instruments.
 
I have a bunch of ligatures that can move if I grab the mouthpiece around the ligature. Yes, the enlightened ligature can move but I just use cork grease and move the mouthpiece by grabbing it by the shank of the mouthpiece so I am not touching the ligature at all. I don't really find it that big a deal. The enlightened ligature is the ligature I use most on soprano and alto sax just because I like the way it responds and how "lively" the response is for me on those horns. I would in no way call this ligature defective or faulty, it's just the nature of the ligature. I have some that are solid as a rock when tightened down and some that aren't.
+ 1.

There's a lot more to a ligature than "can I accidentally move it when the mouthpiece is tight on the neck cork?"

Two types of ligatures that are rock solid (in terms of not moving) for me are Rovners and the BG Duos. However, I hate them both (the Rovner for the poor response/reed seal, and the BG Duo for how difficult it makes slight reed adjustments). Like Steve, one of my favorite ligatures is the FL Ultimate (I have at least six of these). It can sometimes move, but I find that it seals the reed well and makes it really easy to make minor positioning adjustments.

[...] The fact is that I don't like my ligature clamped down to death so it kills the freedom of the reed
This is the one place where I disagree. Unlike Steve, I do like to clamp my ligatures down (nearly) to death. For me "reed freedom" = bad seal = poor response. The heel of your reed should not be able to move while you play.

In any event, I've found that one solution that works pretty well to keep the the FL Ultimates from moving is to to cement a piece of 0.5mm tech cork onto the underside of the pressure plate. For me, this solves two problems:
  1. It provides additional friction (against the reed bark) and thus keeps the ligature from moving
  2. It keeps the reed bark from getting gouged or distorted when I clamp down the ligature "to death".
This solution might also work for @whamptoncourt's issue with the Enlightened lig, since it shares a broadly similar design with the FL Ultimate.
 
You shouldn't have to clamp it down to death. Have you ever tried experimenting with clamping it down, playing it and then loosening it a little at a time and playing it again. I find there is a sweet spot where the reed is held on and it gets suction but the reed feels more free and responsive. If I tighten it down I feel like it kills some of the richness of the tone or something. It also feels more constrained and less expressive to me........
Of course. I was exaggerating a bit.

I try not to tighten it down so much that the reed bark gets damaged or that the ligature becomes distorted. I have also found that resurfacing the reed tables regularly (which I now do) seems to make overtightening somewhat less important.

However, regarding tone/response, I've only found that things get worse when I loosen the ligature. In fact, I've often been in playing situations where I've experienced something close to the opposite of what you're reporting: i.e., the reed gets a bit chirpy or unresponsive, but things improve after I retighten the ligature. I'm also not sure, from a physics/acoustics perspective, how vibration of the heel of the reed could possibly do anything for the tone other than (1) dissipate some of the reed's energy, causing response to suffer; or (2) cause the reed to squeak; or both.
 
Be careful clamping hard rubber pieces to death. In the long run it can warp the piece.
That's interesting. However, I don't tighten my ligatures so much that they mar the mouthpiece. And I'd imagine that if the top and sides of the mouthpiece, where the ligature makes direct contact with the mouthpiece, are not visibly distorted, then the table (where the "cushion" of the reed reduces the pressure by spreading the force out over a much larger area) will probably be unaffected. In any event, I haven't encountered any problems or noticed any deviations from flatness on any of my mouthpiece tables.

As an aside, I just noticed that I don't really use any hard rubber mouthpieces on saxophone anymore.
  • On tenor, I only use metal pieces (I started on an STM and never got used to the larger profile and increased vibration transmission of HR pieces).
  • On alto, my main piece is a Klum Acoustimax, which is made of a synthetic polymer.
  • On soprano, I switch between three great pieces (Gerber Solo LC, Drake New Era, & Morgan Vintage), all of which are made of synthetic polymers.
Except on tenor, this wasn't a deliberate or conscious move on my part. I didn't even realize it until I made a note to check my mouthpiece tables in response to your comment, and I still use HR mouthpieces on clarinet. It's probably more of a reflection of recent manufacturing trends in the mouthpiece industry.
 
Sorry JL the point again has been skimmed over. The mouthpiece isn't available without the expensive lig that she paid for ,and like many of us, finds is useless. I'm really surprised that this simple fact hasn't sunk in. We don't want to pay for a lig that disappoints. Theo seems determined to not stand behind his product, and unfortunately you and others seem to be happy to make excuses for him. We don't stand for this nonsense with other gear suppliers like Steve Goodson, who can also make good gear, but doesn't stand behind it. Hopefully Lisa and others like me will not forgive and forget money wasted and vote with their wallet when next in the market for a mouthpiece. There are plenty of other excellent mouthpieces to choose from. There is no excuse for bad gear that the maker won't stand behind.
As @JL said, many great mouthpieces are sold at comparable or even higher cost without any ligature whatsoever. If you don't like the included ligature(s), you can just think of it as coming free with the mouthpiece and buy a different one that better suits you. Personally, I like the built in ligature that comes with Theo's metal mouthpieces, but I've often tossed the free ligature that came with a mouthpiece (e.g., the Rovner that comes with a Morgan, the ring lig that comes with a Drake) when I didn't like it, and I did it without making a fuss because those mouthpieces were received as advertised.

Theo sells the ligatures separately and makes clear what ligatures come with his mouthpieces. Different players like different ligatures. There's no false advertising or failure to inform here.
 
The ligature just would not fit back on the mouthpiece at all!! I unscrewed the screws all the way, and tried several times to re-attach the ligature to another position without success. I ended up going back to the middle position it had come in, screwed the screws in but it appears to have somehow stretched the width of the ligature so now it just falls right off!
I am beyond belief disappointed, especially as it cost me way more than I could really justify but I'd heard they were the bees knees. Now, after just one day, I have a ligature that doesn't work and a long dreamed of mouthpiece I can't even play because none of my other ligatures fit on it.
I am beyond disappointed. I've written to them to let them know what happened. I'm going to make a YouTube video to show what happened as I'm sure mine can't be an isolated case. At the price these mouthpieces are, I expect that the included ligature works the way it's supposed to.
Lisa,

I agree with what @JL said above. However, someone might be able to help you if you post pictures of the ligature and the mouthpiece to let us try to determine the problem. I used one of Theo's Gaia mouthpieces for many years and after about 5 years of untightening and retightening the ligature screws, the ligature stretched (a little bit, not so much that it would fall off), but I just used smooth-jawed pliers to bend it back into shape. I imagine that you could find someone to do this for you, should you decide to keep using the included ligature.
 
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