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Theo Wanne Mouthpieces and their ligatures

21K views 114 replies 34 participants last post by  Spooner 
It would be nice if TW offered his new HR mouthpieces without his "enlightened" lig. I was horribly disappointed by all the trappings and self promotion when it was painfully obvious that it was a very poorly designed lig that wouldn't allow the slightest adjustment without everything going askew. How unsusal is it to have to go out and play a gig without warming up your instrument for 10 minutes? Yea, it's usually the way it happens. So you've pushed on and then need to back off the nouthpiece when it all warms up to get back to being in tune. That's where it all goes sideways with TW's "enlightened" lig. "Hey everybody stop the music, my expensive hyped lig just slipped and I need to spend a few minutes putting it back together! " The only thing that felt (en) lightened was my wallet. I felt offended by it after paying new price and then given a lig that was crap when almost any cheap Chinese lig is better. I have not purchased a new TW since, and never will. Are you listening TW???
 
Thank you everyone for taking the time to share about the Enlightened Ligature. I agree that it moves around too easily on the mouthpiece body, so am now speeding up production of an updated design.

Originally, I had designed it primarily for sound, finding minimal contact with the mouthpiece body, along with differing thin and thick sections of the brass, sounded best. If you look carefully you can see it isn't just one thickness of brass, but several. This design is very difficult to make, so it is definitely not a gimmick, but a very carefully planned design. Sound wise, it has won awards, and was even touted as the best sounding ligature made by the Japanese magazine 'The Sax' when they did a comparison of all ligature available.

That said, I do agree its Achilles Heel is that it moves on the mouthpiece too easily. We are finishing up the design of a much wider band version, that contacts more of the mouthpiece body, now.

For our 2020 thin body hard rubber soprano & alto models, we do currently sell a standard band style ligature, which looks more like a traditional style ligature. This is the ligature supplied with our ELEMENTS line of mouthpieces, however, it fits our 2020 Pro Model line too. I am working on an updated version of this ligature, along with a tenor/baritone version now tool.

Regarding caps, we have been working hard all last year designing a new cap that works on the bandstand with the reed on. This will also be available later this year as well.

In short, I hear you, and am taking action to rectify the issues mentioned here. Your feedback is greatly appreciated, as we are always trying to improve our products.

- Theo Wanne
I'm glad to hear that you've recognized the lig supplied to me and others was faulty. In the light of that it seems that a "recall" is in order so that we can be supplied with a new lig that works. Your mouthpieces are not cheap, and your reputation (in this case) is at stake. I've commented that I will not purchase another mouthpiece from you since I felt cheated in paying for what appears to be an expensive ligature that doesn't do it's basic job of holding the reed if in any way touched/moved (which we all need to do!).

I'm sure that I'd be joined by others who feel let down and would consider your reputation in tact if amends were made via a free replacement.

Your willingness to front up and acknowledge the problem speaks well. Your willingness to do right by us would be an outstanding gesture and greatly appreciated.
 
As said I do feel that the lig was a poor design from the standpoint of a person who is playing and it fails to keep the reed securely on when even slightly moved (a necessity for most of us). The other feedback in this thread certainly confirms that opinion. If your lig has superior playing characteristics that's nice, although not IMHO that's not as important as keeping the reed securely on the mouthpiece.

You've acknowledged that it's in need of a redesign, and have graciously offered to replace the lig. However most of us didn't pay for a used ordinary ligature, we paid for a ligature that (as you say) was rated so highly. Can you imagine our disappointment? I would prefer to receive the ligature that lives up to that rating, which hopefully you are now making.

If you'd like I can be a test guinea pig if you'd like to send along a prototype. Does that seem fair?

Cheers.
 
Really? Perhaps it is wise to stick to speaking for yourself. I dont really remember a representative being elected to be the chief of the ligature police.

You realistically expect a recall? Its not a car with a bad airbag. Every lig has its advantages and disadvantages. I dont think Rovners seal well. Am I in a position to demand a full recall on every cloth lig?
Id feel pretty silly.
With all due respect Phil: What was paid for was claimed to be an award winning ligature, not a cheap rovner lig. Using your car analogy it's like buying a (supposedly) "car of the year" that was only judged for its looks, but has faulty brakes. There's a fatal flaw that makes this ligature basically unusable for anyone who needs to adjust the mouthpiece for tuning purposes. It fails most of the time when adjusted. Read back in this thread. It's about a whole lot of disappointed buyers, it's not just me. Theo has the opportunity to cover this and do right by his customers or suffer the consequences to his reputation. It's that simple.

It's admirable that you would come to the defense of a fellow mouthpiece maker who could have been simply seen as a competitor. That says a lot for you as a person. I'm still waiting for Theo to do the right thing by all who are dissatisfied.
 
If there was not a problem why are you in the process of redesigning it? Let's get real here! You sold us a mouthpiece with supposedly a great lig. You refused to sell us a mouthpiece without the lig, so we paid for something that for a whole lot of us doesn't work in doing its single most basic job. It doesn't hold the reed securely in place. This was also reported in Steve Neff's review. You've taken this information in and decided to do a redesign. That's based on recognizing a fault. We applaud your decision to correct it. The only thing left to do is also replace the ligature for those who are not satisfied. Since you think most are satisfied, then there shouldn't be many to replace.

This is your reputation man. I've made myself clear about wishing a replacement that meets the quality statements that you made. My personal option (I speak for nobody else) is to never purchase a product of yours again. However I would certainly encourage others to do likewise. Voting with our wallets is ultimate way to show our displeasure with a product and a maker that doesn't stand behind their product.
 
I agree with Theo. Any real discussion of this issue is over.
whamptoncourt has his options. We don't need to transfer any more electrons about this
Are you the same Charlie J who posted:
"Although I am no expert on sax or on mouthpieces and/or ligatures I cant help but feel that the ligature approach on Theo Wanne mouthpieces are more for show and a gimmick rather than some kind of superior design for ligatures. and superior and/or optimal performance."

Sorry Charlie. As far as I'm concerned the discussion just got to the meat of the problem, and you're also a person who isn't satisfied and said it in a very forceful way. It's crunch time for Theo to do what's right and stand behind his product and claims or let us know he's grateful for our $$ and doesn't want to otherwise know us.

In my "day job" I also produce products. When/if they fail to please I offer a refund or replacement to keep my customers happy. That's standard business practice. What's being asked for is absolutely normal for anyone providing a product.

The offer of a cheap used ligature as a replacement somehow just doesn't make up for an expensive ligature that didn't work for me, for you, and a whole lot of other people.
 
Buyer buys product.
Buyer doesn't like product.
Buyer has choice not to purchase product again.
That's called capitalism. It's worked pretty well for us so far.

Seller offers to send another product at no charge.
That's called above and beyond.
Lets try that again in this exact context: Seller offers mouthpiece ONLY with his award wining lig. Can't buy it without it. Buyer receives both and can't abide by the ligature as it comes off with the slightest movement of the mouthpiece (also affirmed by many on this thread and Steve Neff in his review). Seller acknowledges less than ideal design and is going to replace said "less than optimum" lig. Buyer requests replacement. Seller offers USED cheap ligature as a replacement. You call that above and beyond? Yes it's beyond belief that anyone would think that it's afair replacement.

Do you honestly think that when a group of people have a legitimate complaint that the maker's answer should be to fob them off with some cheap used stuff lying around in a drawer? That's what was offered. I do not accept that as fair or adequate. Is this really that difficult to understand?

I'm happy for those players who are satisfied and don't perceive the need to adjust their mouthpiece or can gingerly do it when the pressure is on in performance. I find it a fault, others agree. It seems that Theo agrees or there would be no redesign project. There only remains the question of whether Theo values former customers enough to keep them as potential buyers. There are other people besides those commenting who are watching and waiting to see how Theo responds.
 
Lisa, this is a real shame and likely they will be able to furnish you with another lig or a way to fix it. However, don't get too bent out of shape; it's only a ligature and evidently not a very useful one (in your case). There are dozens of relatively inexpensive, excellent ligs that will fit that mpc and give you no trouble at all. Many of the best, top-quality mpcs come without ligatures, allowing the player to choose whatever lig they prefer. You have a top quality mpc and that's not dependent on the lig.

The hype you don't want to swallow is that you need some special super-duper fancy ligature. The fact is, a ligature has one purpose: to hold the reed firmly to the mpc. That's it. So you might as well get one that fits well (most important) and be done with it. In the meantime, if you want to try out the mpc, just use a rubber band or piece of painter's tape or anything that will hold the reed on and go ahead and play the mpc.
Sorry JL the point again has been skimmed over. The mouthpiece isn't available without the expensive lig that she paid for ,and like many of us, finds is useless. I'm really surprised that this simple fact hasn't sunk in. We don't want to pay for a lig that disappoints. Theo seems determined to not stand behind his product, and unfortunately you and others seem to be happy to make excuses for him. We don't stand for this nonsense with other gear suppliers like Steve Goodson, who can also make good gear, but doesn't stand behind it. Hopefully Lisa and others like me will not forgive and forget money wasted and vote with their wallet when next in the market for a mouthpiece. There are plenty of other excellent mouthpieces to choose from. There is no excuse for bad gear that the maker won't stand behind.
 
No, actually I didn't miss that point. I even agreed that Lisa's experience was a shame. My point was simply that you can toss that lig and pick up a simple, inexpensive 2-screw lig (or any other lig of your choice that fits) and solve the problem. I don't know how much the included lig adds to the price, but I doubt it's a huge amount. I also think it would be a good idea to offer the mpc without a lig maybe with a slight discount.

I briefly had a TW "Magna" (I think that was what it was called; an earlier model) that I sold because I found it a bit too bright for my taste. But it played very well and was a quality mpc. I had no problem with the ligature, but if I had kept the mpc I might have replaced the lig with one I could slip on and off (maybe).

I guess I'm saying there's no reason to make a big deal out of a ligature, even while acknowledging the likely added cost. If you really don't want that lig, or to pay for it, or to replace it with another lig, and if they won't offer the mpc without it, then just don't buy it.
Exactly.. Not buying again since he's failed to either sell without the ligature or compensate for what many of us consider faulty. Just as a basis for comparison Theo's "Enlightened Ligature" sells separately for $139.00 USD. Not exactly cheap.
 
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