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Re: Beaufort, Frank Holton, Austria

Remember that Austria was not the same as it is today....could be some old Kohlert, Keilwerth, etc. connection.
That is the angle, Bruce Bailey! Prior to 1918 Graslitz (Kraslice) was part of Austria and Keilwerth and Kohlert made saxophones in Graslitz ... and Keilwerth e.g. did make saxophones for the largest German saxophone manufacturer in Markneukirchen, Oscar Adler. Graslitz, Klingenthal and Markneukirchen were known as the 'music corner', which was the birthplace of the German saxophone manufacturing, the German 'Elkhart'.

The left side of the tenor from post #6.
The RH 'extra keys': the upper closes low Bb, the middle closes low B, the lower opens low C#:



HSHuskey's post and Soybeans reply are moved to http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?p=1334889#post1334889
 

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Re: The Origin of the 'Beaufort', Frank Holton, Austria

This new thread embraces what was started by Geauxsax and Walter Webb concerning the Holton 'Beaufort' Model. All older or new information found on this topic will be collected here.

Geauxsax', Walter's and Bruce Bailey's contributions on the 'Beaufort' are fine steps forward to the still open question: Who is the manufacturer of Holton's pre-1918th 'Beaufort' Model? Taking into account what was already said about it, this question turns out to be one of the most thrilling ones about European-American saxophone history of the 19th century.

I am confident together we will work it out. Everybody is invited to discuss or contribute to this topic.
Because of the particular importance the 'Origin of the Beaufort Model' is temporarily established as a 'sticky'.

Felix
 

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... Any ideas on make (assuming stencil) of this one? From what I can make out of the front engraving, it says "Beaufort", and was from the Chicago days of Holton. The "Austria" marking on the back looks borderline home-done, so I don't really know where it was made.

IMHO, it shares design cues with the ancient Holton Beaufort tenor from saxpics.
I share this view. A few days ago I believed that I knew the answer. Then Walter pointed to an Evette-Schaeffer tenor, which is strucurally identical with the 'Beaufort' tenor and there is strong indication, that the Evette is actually made in France. Can we now close the case?

I think we cannot, as there is no explanation, why the 'French' Beaufort is marked 'Austria' except those, which are Buescher made like the bari #28955 strangely marked 'imported by' and an alto from 1919 marked 'sold by' Frank Holton Co. The marking 'AUSTRIA' leads us distinctly to Graslitz.

Paris or Graslitz?

We have a contradictious situation. Who can help?
 

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I just noticed the rather primitive LH pinky keys on the beat up Beaufort alto: there seems to be a couple of missing keys, by design, probably for the low B and C or C#, and it appears that the 2 RH lower "trill" type keys are meant to take their place. Maybe it worked really well, since the levers are very short and close to the keys. I imagine it is probably more clarinet-like, to be able to actuate those low notes with alternating left and right hands. God knows the downfall of the saxophone is having to handle those hard-action, sluggish, long levered low notes with your left pinky. Try playing fast chromatic runs, up and down 10 times, from low Bb to C.

What I wonder is, how could you actuate those low RH trill keys when your Rt hand is already expected to hold a low D?
 

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I just noticed the rather primitive LH pinky keys on the beat up Beaufort alto: there seems to be a couple of missing keys, by design, probably for the low B and C or C#, and it appears that the 2 RH lower "trill" type keys are meant to take their place. Maybe it worked really well, since the levers are very short and close to the keys. I imagine it is probably more clarinet-like, to be able to actuate those low notes with alternating left and right hands. God knows the downfall of the saxophone is having to handle those hard-action, sluggish, long levered low notes with your left pinky. Try playing fast chromatic runs, up and down 10 times, from low Bb to C.

What I wonder is, how could you actuate those low RH trill keys when your Rt hand is already expected to hold a low D?
I think there is missing a lot on that alto. Here is a copy of the 'Latest improved keys added to the Evette & Schaeffer System':





Walter, I am happy that you found out Evette & Schaeffer as being the originator of the (French) Beaufort! :)

Felix
 

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Two Holton/Beaufort/Evette/Buffet Crampon tenors have surfaced: One looks to me like a previous eBay sale that the new seller has fixed up, including replacing the missing low C guard and a repad. I believe this one had it's RH levers cut off, but I'm not sure:
[http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...499169&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1182

The second one is F/S on SOTW right now, from Normandy, France, at 250 Euros (approx. 339 USD). http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?131757-Old-Buffet-Crampon-Tenor-for-Sale-(Apogee)
The seller says Apogee, but I can't see any extra keys or levers. This is stamped Buffet Crampon, France, not Austria like the others. I wonder if there was a factory in Austria that made these horns, or if the French parts were just assembled there. Those hand engraved "Austria l.p" scripts on the back look like an afterthought.
 

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Thank you for your advanced researches, Walter! Too bad, the links don't work for me.
 

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the links do not work for me either. Can someone fix them?
 

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how could you actuate those low RH trill keys when your Rt hand is already expected to hold a low D?
I'm not sure, but could those trill keys automatically hold down the D key for you?
 

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Felix, that one is sold on eBay a few months ago. It was a beautiful tenor. The new owner is very happy.
 

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.. I wonder ... if the French parts were just assembled there. ...
That is a very interesting track, Walter. I've seen an Evette-Schaeffer C-melody with the extra keys stencilled "Oscar Adler" - just as if it was an own make. Maybe Adler assembled intermittently Evette parts? Apparently Adler did not build their own C-melody's

Here is the Adler logo on that C melody.



and the evette-system keywork.

 

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There must be many European stencils, just like there were in the USA. It looks like Holton bought them for a few years, until getting their factory started in Elkhorn, Wisconsin to make their own full line of saxes.
 

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Walter's question is still haunting me. Does anyone (Felix?) know the answer? Has anyone here played the Beaufort models with these extra "levers" (notice E&S does not call them keys).

What I wonder is, how could you actuate those low RH trill keys when your Rt hand is already expected to hold a low D?
 

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Walter's question is still haunting me. Does anyone (Felix?) know the answer?
Let me come back to this soon.

Has anyone here played the Beaufort models with these extra "levers" (notice E&S does not call them keys).
No, I have not. "Levers" instead of "keys". Yes, that makes sense, interesting detail.
 
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