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Distinguished SOTW Member and Champion of the Holt
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
One of the Austrian curvies (sop) I remember Bruce mentioning:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Frank-Holton-Vi...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53dee62aac

I had to resist the urge to pull the trigger on this one, but there's just too much damage for me. Any ideas on make (assuming stencil) of this one? From what I can make out of the front engraving, it says "Beaufort", and was from the Chicago days of Holton. The "Austria" marking on the back looks borderline home-done, so I don't really know where it was made.

IMHO, it shares design cues with the ancient Holton Beaufort tenor from saxpics.
http://www.saxpics.com/?v=gal&a=5157

pics:






 

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Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

One of the Austrian curvies (sop) I remember Bruce mentioning:

... Any ideas on make (assuming stencil) of this one? From what I can make out of the front engraving, it says "Beaufort", and was from the Chicago days of Holton. The "Austria" marking on the back looks borderline home-done, so I don't really know where it was made.
The bell-engraving says:

Beaufort
Frank Holton Co.
Chicago​

This alto is part of the last Holton mysteries we couldn't clear up until now. But I hope we are on to something.

Imo Austria actually can be the possible origin:

Some German saxophone manufacturers e.g. Kohlert, Adler and Keilwerth were located in Graslitz which belonged to Austria until 1918. No serial number, mhh.. a cloak-and-dagger operation (WWI)? The joint rings are reminiscent of Evette-Schaefer.. I've read something about an early connection with Keilwerth.. no serial number .. French connection.. O.K., not during the war ...

It's fun to speculate :drunken:
 

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Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

A Kohlert soprano (ca. 1900) with a very similiar AUSTRIA lettering:



Do we come closer?
 

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Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

I saw that ebay horn yesterday and it really is pretty "gone". I thought it was a soprano at first and then saw the 22" statement and looked at the photos.
 

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Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

I firmly believe we will spot the manufacturer. :glasses7:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

Another Beaufort, this time a Bari. The seller guessed it to be a stencilled Conn or Evette & Schaeffer (sp?). I don't think it's a Conn, but maybe an Evette (??). It shares details with the other two mentioned Beauforts--even small stuff like keyguard style and bell to body brace. And note that the engraving says "imported by. . .", which points to a foreign maker to me. It was also made during Holton's Chicago days. And yes, I note that the thing on the bottom of the bow looks Buescher-ish.

sn 28955





 

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Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

Take note of EBay #110373077079-- A Holton Beaufort baritone saxophone. Marked "Holton Chicago". It looks French from the bell brace, as perhaps Holton Chicago was not set up to build baritones yet. It is way over-priced. My guess is that it's an Evette-Schaeffer.
Another Beaufort, this time a Bari. The seller guessed it to be a stencilled Conn or Evette & Schaeffer (sp?). I don't think it's a Conn, but maybe an Evette (??). It shares details with the other two mentioned Beauforts--even small stuff like keyguard style and bell to body brace. And note that the engraving says "imported by. . .", which points to a foreign maker to me. It was also made during Holton's Chicago days. And yes, I note that the thing on the bottom of the bow looks Buescher-ish.

sn 28955
I suspect the two Beaufort bari's are identic. Strange that we forgot to document the serial number of the first.

What I see in the photos tells imo the same origin: Pure Buescher. The Buescher serial number chart (Horn-u-Copia) puts this bari to the beginning year 1917 - perfectly matching! Holton started second half 1917.

"Imported by Frank Holton" from Elkhart to Chicago! Yes, that's really very funny, haha. What might be the reason for such a curious idea? :clown:

I wonder how Mr. Jazzbug might be doing?!

Felix
 

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Re: Holton Saxophone; Serial number registry

Addition: This is Buescher's rounded tonehole design (soldered) before switching to drawn toneholes according to Haynes' patent.

 

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Beaufort, Frank Holton, Austria

Here is another of those Austrian Beauforts that defy classification, this time with great pictures. I think it's a Bb tenor, with a a bell that is unusually flared away from the body. The seller says it's pre Elkhorn, pre Spring of 1918:
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-POS-ANT...ultDomain_0?hash=item5ad62735ce#ht_4914wt_941

Now, if I had just kept my mouth shut, I could have been the only bidder!
 

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Re: Beaufort, Frank Holton, Austria

Here is another of those Austrian Beauforts that defy classification ...!
... Not much longer. This find helps to zero in on the manufacturer soon. :thumbrig: I am just digging something out ...

Now, if I had just kept my mouth shut, I could have been the only bidder!
I wish you will remain the only bidder (and tell us more about it)!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Beaufort, Frank Holton, Austria

I wish you will remain the only bidder (and tell us more about it)!
Well, the seller describing it as a POS might help :D:D:D
No kidding! I tried to think of something else they may have meant there, but I'm at a loss. I guess they really meant piece of s.. .:?

Anyway, Walter--I had already spotted that one too!;) Your saving grace is that they want to ship via UPS. That's insanely expensive for me overseas. Good luck on bidding--I'll be rooting for you!
 

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Re: Beaufort, Frank Holton, Austria

No kidding! I tried to think of something else they may have meant there, but I'm at a loss. I guess they really meant piece of s.. .:?
Well, I assumed s/he meant 'Vintage POSSIBLY antique' ... but I could be wrong ;)

Anyway, can't hurt WW's chances!
 

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Re: Beaufort, Frank Holton, Austria

The buyer should be prepared that apparently there is an unusual part of the low D key-mechanism (trill-key?) missing.
Possibly stuck rods.

 

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Re: Beaufort, Frank Holton, Austria

The buyer should be prepared that apparently there is an unusual part of the low D key-mechanism (trill-key?) missing.
Possibly stuck rods.
Yes, it looks like they removed the trill key touch, the keycup and pad, and soldered the hole closed. It must have been an Eb trill, being in the middle of the D key, venting a half step higher. Based upon photos of other similar Beauforts, I think the two or three other little trill keys down there have been decomissioned. I would expect to find the levers chopped off and the moving pivot parts soldered together. I am suspicious of the left side. Out of 19 fotos, there's no view of the LH. The low C key guard is missing, and the solder traces remain. This horn could be a piece of work---POW, not POS.

After examining some pictures of the early Evette-Schaeffer shown here: http://www.saxpics.com/?v=gal&a=1219
I have to wonder why nearly every design feature is identical to the Beaufort sold by Holton. There has gotta be some connection. Other than the bell engraving, I can find no difference.
 

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Re: Beaufort, Frank Holton, Austria

Another example of the same era with three additional spatula keys in the area of low E. The other tenor above (#6), which is younger, has them, too.

http://www.saxpics.com/?v=gal&a=5157





Looks like alternate bell keys?!
 

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Re: Beaufort, Frank Holton, Austria

The 'Beaufort' alto has two of them (left) ...

 

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Re: Beaufort, Frank Holton, Austria

http://www.saxpics.com/?v=gal&a=1219

If this is not the same horn as the above-mentioned Holton Beaufort tenor, then I am a monkey's uncle.
I agree so far. Both tenor saxophones came from the same factory.

But the question is still up in the air. Which Austrian manufacturer made them?
 

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Re: Beaufort, Frank Holton, Austria

Remember that Austria was not the same as it is today....could be some old Kohlert, Keilwerth, etc. connection.
 
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