[Michael Ward]

Earlier this year I worked on a track with the well known singer Roisin Murphy and House Music Producer Richard "Parrot"Barrett, The song was remixed by a very well known high profile remixer in NYC. The track has no label, hasn't even been shopped let alone released and yet like a virus somehow it is everywhere. Where it was leaked from no one knows. Yet here it is. The quality isn't even good. This is a small example of the sites. there are pages of them...strange times we live in.

http://www.rumorplectro.com/

http://montenegrinsdoitbetter.blogspot.com/2011/12/roisin-murphy-simulation.html

 

[Michael Ward]

I recently had personal experience of how File Sharing is affecting the music industry.

My friend is a DJ on BBC Radio 1 and has his own show. He is also a recording artist and recently completed his second album on a successful independent label. He utilised a lot of writers, producers singers and rappers as well as musicians. He also travelled to Jamaica to include some contributions from there. As is the practice pre release promotional copies were sent to journalists working in his field of music. One of these journalists before release put the album on a well known File Share site effectively ruining any chance of recouping the considerable costs making the record let alone a profit. My friend the artist actually made the unprecedented move of naming the German journalist on the label's site.

I can't understand why someone who is involved in the scene would do this or why any fan of the artist would do this. It's so destructive . My friend is now remixing the record to make it radically different to the original presumably to try and initiate some income . I wrote two tunes on the record so I lost out too.

 

[DaveR]

Hi Michael, I commiserate...

It's become impossible for us to make any money from our recordings now because of the technology. I tried to educate my kids not to steal the music, but it makes no sense to them, the music is there to be downloaded for free, so download it they will. The eBook market is in exactly the same trouble (although the publishers are keep very quiet about that). The Movie makers are too in the same boat, except for the fact that some of us still enjoy the actual cinema experience.

It will come to the point where almost no one can write either books or music professionally unless really radical steps are taken to stop what is essentially piracy. Our only answer is to play live again as a matter of course and to stop relying on recording, and to brow beat the stupid, useless County Councils to allow Bands into pubs and clubs without all restrictions that have come in over the last few years.

 

[Michael Ward]

Thanks for the response Dave. I agree about the live experience which can't be replicated although many in the field in production and engineering and writing can't play live.As you say recorded music now has become so devalued because it is available everywhere for nothing. I still buy CD's and vinyl myself because I like the physical product and the sleeves plus I like to support the artists. At the grass roots level bands are paid very little if at all if they are playing original music. It has almost become vocational.
Like yourself I'm sure I've been in the MU for decades and in the recent Public Service strikes over pensions I thought in the cause of solidarity it would be interesting to know how many of the strikers had illegally copied, downloaded or file shared and effectively contributed to the decimation of my industry and taken away my associates income and future pension ie Royalties. I'm not saying they are wrong...My sister and both her children are Nurse, Fireman and Teacher but it is an interesting point when we are constantly told we are dinosaurs and technology is progress.
Personally I always thought recorded music was a bargain for the pleasure it brings but it doesn't matter how cheap is is if you can get it for nothing.

 

[piwikiwi]

I agree that download music illegally is bad but I've discovered a lot of musicians that way and I have bought more music because of it instead of less. Also the Stop Piracy Now Act which the American congress(or senate, I don't know enought about the us political system) is working on is absolutely horrible. It enables people to censor website that are capable of promoting pirated content. Almost every website is capable of doing this: twitter, facebooke, youtube etc.

 

[piwikiwi]

Thanks for the response Dave. I agree about the live experience which can't be replicated although many in the field in production and engineering and writing can't play live.As you say recorded music now has become so devalued because it is available everywhere for nothing. I still buy CD's and vinyl myself because I like the physical product and the sleeves plus I like to support the artists. At the grass roots level bands are paid very little if at all if they are playing original music. It has almost become vocational.
Like yourself I'm sure I've been in the MU for decades and in the recent Public Service strikes over pensions I thought in the cause of solidarity it would be interesting to know how many of the strikers had illegally copied, downloaded or file shared and effectively contributed to the decimation of my industry and taken away my associates income and future pension ie Royalties. I'm not saying they are wrong...My sister and both her children are Nurse, Fireman and Teacher but it is an interesting point when we are constantly told we are dinosaurs and technology is progress.
Personally I always thought recorded music was a bargain for the pleasure it brings but it doesn't matter how cheap is is if you can get it for nothing.

Musicians are exploiting themselves too. They will sign anything to get famous instead of producing their own products. People would be a lot more supportive if they would see what kind of an impact it makes on the artists. But the large companies like Universal are the ones that are the most visible and they exploit artists themselves. Why would people pay 10 dollars for an album(20 euros! in Europe) when the artist only makes a dollar?

 

[Michael Ward]

Yes I've heard that argument and many others. I suppose if the artists were actually asked if they consented to their work being used as a free flyer in the hope they might sell some of their other work I might agree but they aren't. The reality is when you've spent a lot of time and money creating a piece of work to sell and support yourself and your family and someone sticks the whole lot on a pirate file share it's wrong and theft. You might not have anything else to sell...that's it it's gone.

 

[Michael Ward]

I can't agree with this argument either I'm afraid. The music industry supports a lot of workers not just artists and I still say 20 Euros is cheap for what you are getting. How many pizzas is that? Regardless of that if you see a coat in a shop window and you want it but you think it's too expensive do you put a brick through and steal it? No .

Musicians are exploiting themselves too. They will sign anything to get famous instead of producing their own products. People would be a lot more supportive if they would see what kind of an impact it makes on the artists. But the large companies like Universal are the ones that are the most visible and they exploit artists themselves. Why would people pay 10 dollars for an album(20 euros! in Europe) when the artist only makes a dollar?

 

[DaveR]

I discover musicians through research and then by listening on Spotify, one of the best ideas of recent years.

The answer does not IMHO lie in further legislating against 'copyright theft' because it's already gone to darn far, we lost that battle years ago and the eBook publishers have lost it too, Kindle files have been cracked and millions of pirated books now circulate the world just as endless copies of every piece of music ever released also do. There was such eagerness to release our product in modern forms that no real care was taken to see that it was safe from theft on such a huge scale. The boat has most definitely sailed.

Insofar as present technology is concerned, Spotify has succeeded by providing a wonderful service at a reasonable cost that aligns itself with the increase in pocket sized, internet connected, all-in-one devices.

I'd like to think that live music will re-surface as a reaction to all this, but it may take a while. In my darkest moments I see a further severe shrinkage of the music profession and all that that entails in the meanwhile.

 

[piwikiwi]

I discover musicians through research and then by listening on Spotify, one of the best ideas of recent years.

The answer does not IMHO lie in further legislating against 'copyright theft' because it's already gone to darn far, we lost that battle years ago and the eBook publishers have lost it too, Kindle files have been cracked and millions of pirated books now circulate the world just as endless copies of every piece of music ever released also do. There was such eagerness to release our product in modern forms that no real care was taken to see that it was safe from theft on such a huge scale. The boat has most definitely sailed.

Insofar as present technology is concerned, Spotify has succeeded by providing a wonderful service at a reasonable cost that aligns itself with the increase in pocket sized, internet connected, all-in-one devices.

I'd like to think that live music will re-surface as a reaction to all this, but it may take a while. In my darkest moments I see a further severe shrinkage of the music profession and all that that entails in the meanwhile.

Spotify isn't great for artists, lady gaga earned 167 dollar from 1 million plays of the song poker face. Spotify is created to avoid the downloading ban in some countries. Streaming music isn't illegal.

 

[DaveR]

Musicians are exploiting themselves too. They will sign anything to get famous instead of producing their own products.

Actually, I think going by some of the nonsense on this site 'Endorse anything' would be more accurate!

People would be a lot more supportive if they would see what kind of an impact it makes on the artists. But the large companies like Universal are the ones that are the most visible and they exploit artists themselves.

Hmmm.... that's just human nature at this point in evolution. People would be a lot more supportive if they took their heads out of their a***es. People who are aware enough to understand that copyright theft makes an impact are also sensitive enough not to steal, and vice-versa. Theft is just dumb selfishness at the level we are discussing (please note, I am NOT saying that all theft is born of selfishness). And I include big companies in that statement because they are the visible reflection of the humans that run them, I am not keen on the 'Stick it to The Man' argument.

Why would people pay 10 dollars for an album(20 euros! in Europe) when the artist only makes a dollar?

Because, like most of us they have no understanding of cause and effect. Do we all not buy T-shirts and trainers made by quasi-slave labour?

 

[DaveR]

Spotify isn't great for artists, lady gaga earned 167 dollar from 1 million plays of the song poker face. Spotify is created to avoid the downloading ban in some countries. Streaming music isn't illegal.

Point taken, but I personally have discovered Will Vinson, Donald Harrison, Troy Roberts, Dave Tofani, Bob Reynolds, Matt Otto and others through this site this year, and then listened to their music on Spotify. That in turn has led to my purchasing their work because Spotify has allowed me to see if I liked it and restricts me to 5 plays of any particular track.

 

[piwikiwi]

Actually, I think going by some of the nonsense on this site 'Endorse anything' would be more accurate!

Hmmm.... that's just human nature at this point in evolution. People would be a lot more supportive if they took their heads out of their a***es. People who are aware enough to understand that copyright theft makes an impact are also sensitive enough not to steal, and vice-versa. Theft is just dumb selfishness at the level we are discussing (please note, I am NOT saying that all theft is born of selfishness). And I include big companies in that statement because they are the visible reflection of the humans that run them, I am not keen on the 'Stick it to The Man' argument.

Because, like most of us they have no understanding of cause and effect. Do we all not buy T-shirts and trainers made by quasi-slave labour?

For me it's just like the slave labour you mentioned. It's like the factory owner(with slave labour) is complaining about the lack of income. It doesn't justify piracy but it makes it somewhat understandable. Why would people support an artists if is he so stupid that he would sign his music away? Radiohead for example has put an album up for free and allowed people to donate money if they liked. Only a third of the people didn't pay anything. People are willing to support artists and not the companies that exploit them

The Internet has proved to be a great tool for artists to sell their own music without paying any percentage of their profit to record companies. Piracy should and can be beaten by innovation, not by legislation.

I do agree that spotify is a great tool but it's not the solution to this problem.

 

[Michael Ward]

Well the old days are gone for sure and no mistake. Every record I've put out last year has been put on illegal File Share sites almost straight away and in some cases before a release. It just means the companies who financed them won't do it again. Well we can make recordings in our bedrooms now and they sound ok . I've just done one.
Well it's Christmas Eve and I'm off. Merry Christmas!

 

[warp x]

One of these journalists before release put the album on a well known File Share site effectively ruining any chance of recouping the considerable costs making the record let alone a profit. My friend the artist actually made the unprecedented move of naming the German journalist on the label's site.

So what happened next? Did they ever hear back from that journalist?
Sad to see that there's still no real answer to illegal file sharing. Until they find one, musicians will keep losing time and money.

Merry Christmas..

 

[DaveR]

Well the old days are gone for sure and no mistake. Every record I've put out last year has been put on illegal File Share sites almost straight away and in some cases before a release. It just means the companies who financed them won't do it again. Well we can make recordings in our bedrooms now and they sound ok . I've just done one.
Well it's Christmas Eve and I'm off. Merry Christmas!

You too Michael. Happy Christmas!

 

[Michael Ward]

I had to come back ! I couldn't get it out of my mind. The example that Radiohead set putting up an album and accepting whatever the downloader wanted to pay.

First that was their CHOICE and in reality I doubt if they were relying on the income.
For me this is like saying that all people who earn their living from music should become troubadours or buskers. Leave out an honesty box. How would that work in everyday life? The boss pays you what he wants at the end of the week or someone comes and builds you a wall and if you like it you pay them something you determine. I've heard every argument in favour of not paying for music ( or films books etc) and none of them stand up. People prefer free stuff as long as it's not their living.
I heard on the radio a spokesman from the book publishing world saying that authors may have to go the way of musicians and tour doing personal readings to make a living. He'd already written off the music game.

 

[Michael Ward]

So what happened next? Did they ever hear back from that journalist?
Sad to see that there's still no real answer to illegal file sharing. Until they find one, musicians will keep losing time and money.

Merry Christmas..

I don't know what happened Maarten. Probably nothing. Well we're still standing so again MERRY CHRISTMAS!