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the impossible neck, to say the least, yet, it’s there! But is it?

A friend just pointed me in the direction of this video. What do you think?

It shocked me at first.

IF this works than anything would work? No?

If one of the most sensitive parts of our set up can be made of copper tubing and work then what are we talking about when we see people attributing huge changes to minute adjustments in the neck.

I am not so sure that things are what they seem to be.

Indeed the player Mr. Bob Magnuson (who may very well be a member here) says that he has made this with a few pennies out of cheap hardware store metal, BUT then he sports an expensive Klangbogen (!!!) so, cheap on the neck and expensive on the klangbogen?


Ok, this is the most unbelievable test that the Klangbogen cures ANY intonation problem

But ...does it?


I am a little bit suspicious that since the video doesn’t show the hands moving it may be a very nicely executed playback hoax. The author has many videos on line and is obviously a very good player with many saxophones and expensive accessories so, I am not doubting his competence in the least . He has also many videos on how to edit and produce sound recordings.

In other videos he doesn’t sport the hardware store neck so if he did this was not out of necessity.


What do you think? Is this real?


View attachment 228780


 

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Mr Magnusson is a very accomplished NYC session player by all accounts............ all things are possible in the 'world of woodwindery'
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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It's all possible, although we expect everything to follow or evolve from Adolph's geometry, anything different will probably sound a bit different but different is not always worse.

People often think a smooth perfect looking bore etc. is necessary and that any internal imperfections interrupt airflow etc. So again, although this could be true, it may not be a detriment.

I think it was Curt Altarac who looked at one of my PPT metal prototypes and remarked that internally it looked "too perfect and smooth" that mouthpieces with some rough bits (can) sound better. I also know of a very very talented and respected whistle maker, with whom I had a long conversation about internal bore. He motioned that he improves the sound by introducing perturbations (which is a word that sounds beautiful in a Yorkshire accent).

We also, know of rifling in necks. But I'm not sure there is any science that backs any of that up one way or another, so I would stick with "if it sounds good it is good" so if this sounds good, then I would not poopoo the concept of plumbing the realm of possibilities.
 

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If it works, well and good. Now let's wait for the bloke who can make a sax body out of corrugated roofing iron.
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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If it works, well and good. Now let's wait for the bloke who can make a sax body out of corrugated roofing iron.
You rang sir?

Of course when I said if it sounds OK it is OK, but if you do this you obviously need to think beyond :sound" and consider intonation. It looks to me like this is no longer a conical neck. We already know that the cone is straightened out at the tenon, but then goes back to a cone, but this looks like it would be a series of sudden steps rather than gradual closing of the cone. Whether that is as good as a pure cone or not I wouldn't know, but we have a huge compromise of iconicity any way, due not the aforementioned parallel tenon and iconicity of a mouthpiece.
 

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Fun little thread. Fun little vid.

Accurate ?

:|

Hardly....:dazed:

A chinese generic octave key, saddle, spring, spring screw + pip = $15.00.

Extra Tenon (which properly fits your horn) = $15-20

Torch, solder, flux and Fuel = $30

And it looks to me like the neck tube is actually tapered ? (unless the tenon end is same diameter as mouthpiece end. Plumbing copper tube/pipe you buy at the hardware store is certainly NOT tapered.)

So one would need to pay someone (a machinist) to produce a tapered tube from the metal you give 'em. For kicks, let's call it ohhhhhhhh = $60 labor (and quite honestly....it'd probably be double that, as they actually wouldn't do that out of a piece of pipe...they'd do it the way a sax factory does it...fabricating from a piece of sheet metal...THEN give it a proper bend without kinking the inner curvature).

The sheet metal alone= $10

(I'll leave out cost of an adequate neck brace...I'll also leave out the cost of even a cheapo soldering jig to hold everything in perfect position while soldering.....as y'all get the gist)....


Sooooo......:|.....that $1.75 neck comes out to be a $130 'home-made' neck.

Decent Taiwanese and Chinese replacements cost from $30-100. So one could conceivably take that $130....buy 2 or 3 or 4 brand-new different ones of those on eBay, with slightly different specifications - even in 2 different finishes !...and pick the one which works best, then re-sell the other two or three. So at end of day you'd be out around $45, and have a brand new neck which works.

$45 .....vs. the $130 'DIY' Job.

Sorry to be the wet blanket.
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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And it looks to me like the neck tube is actually tapered ? (unless the tenon end is same diameter as mouthpiece end. Plumbing copper tube/pipe you buy at the hardware store is certainly NOT tapered.)
It does look a bit that way, but I presumed that as an optical illusion, hence my comment above about it not being conical.

I agree the whole erect becomes less cheap if you facto in having to taper it and all the other things you mentioned, though I suppose the assumption is that every household has a soldering iron. How else do you keep your kids behaving?
 

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A nice experiment and to me it seems real. It makes me think of a sketch dubbed “dalmontophone” in Nederveen (after the French acoustican Dalmont, but I don’t have Ederveen’s book at hand at the moment). Consisting of a series of cylindrical bores and behaving like a normal conical bore.
 

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Bob Magneson is a studio player who was probably right behind Michael Brecker and David Sanborn in calls for commercial work in NYC in the 80's. So he can probably make lots of equipment sound nice. I agree with the post that his neck cost more than 1.75. I have bought several (4) necks on eBay from a Chinese dealer for tenor in sizes that fit Conn and Selmer tenons for 60-80 dollars apiece. They all work rather nicely, in fact, one works on a 10m brilliantly and gives it a bit more focus and bite. But it is interesting that he could make a neck out of that stuff.
 

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Yes the tapered pipe was the first thing that caught my attention. Otherwise, I would have just used a pipe bender instead of the elbow and dual solder joints.

At the same time, I have built so much stuff from plumbing supplies, including a custom heat sink for a graphics card that allowed me to overclock the hell out of it and snatch the Futuremark #1 spot in their Hall of Fame. Cost: $2.50. Anything is possible :)
 

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I have to say, I admire the craftsmanship, most plumbers in the days of PEX and Sharkbites would eat their hearts out if they saw this
 

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Discussion Starter #15
the pipes are not tapered (to my eye) but are of three (or 4 including the tenon) different sections made expanding the tube at the very least in the only bent section ( which was bent to a determined angle and length and was not purchased off the shelf)

By the way the expander probably used is probably usable ( a friend has bout it to that purpose but has yet to experiment with it) also to expand tenons (not as easy as one may think)

 

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I agree the whole erect becomes less cheap if you facto in having to taper it and all the other things you mentioned, though I suppose the assumption is that every household has a soldering iron. How else do you keep your kids behaving?
This proves that British humor is as funny in real life as it is on TV!😂
 

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Bob Magneson is a studio player who was probably right behind Michael Brecker and David Sanborn in calls for commercial work in NYC in the 80's. So he can probably make lots of equipment sound nice. I agree with the post that his neck cost more than 1.75. I have bought several (4) necks on eBay from a Chinese dealer for tenor in sizes that fit Conn and Selmer tenons for 60-80 dollars apiece. They all work rather nicely, in fact, one works on a 10m brilliantly and gives it a bit more focus and bite. But it is interesting that he could make a neck out of that stuff.
He could have bought a couple of Chinese necks for the price of that Klangbogen.
 

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Hey Saxcop,

I am glad my neck became something of good conversation here. I did nothing to the parts other than beeswax them together and then used the torch only after pitch was in a close place.I got lucky with how things just fit together and especially the actual sax neck socket. Glad to be part of this forum, thank you, Bob Magnuson
 
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