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please enlighten me ????

I need to understand how my sexual orientation relates to my Sax ???

I recently was censored in a thread for raising this question.
 

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please enlighten me ????

I need to understand how my sexual orientation relates to my Sax ???

I recently was censored in a thread for raising this question.
Answer is....................it doesn't matter..............nada.....nothing..........zero.
 

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please enlighten me ????

I need to understand how my sexual orientation relates to my Sax ???

I recently was censored in a thread for raising this question.
Answer is....................it doesn't matter..............nada.....nothing..........zero.
Enlighten ME, gents...why are people taking issue with a Subject/Thread which was a query asking about gay or trans composers which people may know of???

Yet they take no issue with queries about woman, black, Balkan, Icelandic, Tibetan, Brazilian, etc.... ones ????
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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please enlighten me ????

I need to understand how my sexual orientation relates to my Sax ???
It doesn't at all IMO. Nor does mine.

Perhaps if you aren't sure, then this isn't the best place to ask.

I recently was censored in a thread for raising this question.
I'm not aware of that, but if you have an issue with moderation please discuss it with us in Private, as per the =rules of the forum that you signed up to.
 

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This seems like an attempt at trolling, but I'll answer anyway:

Ideally, it shouldn't matter at all. And perhaps it doesn't; I don't know any LGBTQ sax players, so I have no idea about their experiences.

However, I know that factors that sometimes shouldn't matter in theory do in practice. For example, I have known (and known of) many female saxophonists, and have seen that they are frequently viewed and treated differently than male players, especially within the jazz community.
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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This seems like an attempt at trolling, but I'll answer anyway:

Ideally, it shouldn't matter at all. And perhaps it doesn't; I don't know any LGBTQ sax players, so I have no idea about their experiences.

However, I know that factors that sometimes shouldn't matter in theory do in practice. For example, I have known (and known of) many female saxophonists, and have seen that they are frequently viewed and treated differently than male players, especially within the jazz community.
Good point. I'd also say that anyone who has been grossly discriminated against for whatever reason has probably had a real struggle, but with no further info from OP on their sexuality we can't really comment on this particular question.
 

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In a perfect world, nobody would be denied -OR- given a gig, job, promotion, etc etc etc based on race, gender, orientation, age, politics, or favorite football team. But last time I checked, this isn't a perfect world. I'll have to leave it at that.

What puzzles me about seeing this thread is, based on your responses on the other thread (which I was able to open and read), you have already made it clear that you find this an absurd and distasteful topic. And I totally get that. So I have to wonder why you would agitate yourself by bringing it up again, rather than walking away from it. Are you looking for yes or no answers, or are you just daring someone to argue with you?

For the moment, at least, I will let this thread stand in the hope your question will be answered to your satisfaction. But the moment the discussion becomes argumentative or hostile, it's done. And hopefully, nobody will throw away their SOTW membership over it.
 

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I agree with Jaye and mmichel's posts. And as I already pointed out in response to your post on another thread, CashSax, gender identity isn't the same as sexual orientation.
 

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I think it may matter to some. Consider the Lesbian and Gay Band Association and its many member organizations, such as the Atlanta Freedom Bands. It may not reflect on the playing of an instrument directly, but I think such orgs exist to promote acceptance of LGBTQ as performing artists. Perhaps this represents that within gay communities they feel that such discrimination exists.
 

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In a perfect world, nobody would be denied -OR- given a gig, job, promotion, etc etc etc based on race, gender, orientation, age, politics, or favorite football team. But last time I checked, this isn't a perfect world. I'll have to leave it at that.

What puzzles me about seeing this thread is, based on your responses on the other thread (which I was able to open and read), you have already made it clear that you find this an absurd and distasteful topic. And I totally get that. So I have to wonder why you would agitate yourself by bringing it up again, rather than walking away from it. Are you looking for yes or no answers, or are you just daring someone to argue with you?

For the moment, at least, I will let this thread stand in the hope your question will be answered to your satisfaction. But the moment the discussion becomes argumentative or hostile, it's done. And hopefully, nobody will throw away their SOTW membership over it.
I agree. And I'd also like to note that, on any given day, there are active threads that have little, if anything, to do with sax playing. Yet people rarely complain about them. I assume that most people, when they see a thread topic that doesn't interest them, simply choose not to read or post in that thread. You rarely, if ever, see posts where someone says "what does a discussion of [food, cars, sports, weather, etc] have to do with saxophone playing?" But for some reason, a thread inquiring about LGBT composers drew numerous comments from people saying it had no place on SOTW. You have to ask yourself, why is this topic objectionable to people while so many other topics, many of them having nothing at all to do with music, were not?

I would like to think LGBTQ issues are important to everyone, including saxophonists. I understand that discussing sexual orientation makes some people uncomfortable. Those who are uncomfortable with the discussion have the right to not participate, if that's their choice. But I don't think they should try to prevent the discussion from occurring.
 

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Enlighten ME, gents...why are people taking issue with a Subject/Thread which was a query asking about gay or trans composers which people may know of???

Yet they take no issue with queries about woman, black, Balkan, Icelandic, Tibetan, Brazilian, etc.... ones ????
How many zeros in a brazillian?

Seriously though, I've worked (played music) with gay musicians. At the end of the day, it didn't matter. They did the job regardless of classification (LGBTQASDFJKL: or whatever). I my experiences, sexual orientation wasn't important to being able to make music.
 

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There has been so much progress in the last few years with respect to understanding gender identity down to the gene expression level. It is just no longer black and white or XY vs. XX. I have witnessed the transformation of several friends, musicians or not from their birth gender to their identified gender and there is not a single one who has not started literally blossoming and being overall much happier. And I believe that happy musicians are better musicians, including sax players.

Sure, everybody has his or her dark side and skeletons in the closet but at least they are no longer feeling oppressed.

As for the "importance", there is that little thing called acceptance by their peers based on how good they are as opposed to how conformal they are.
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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I would like to think LGBTQ issues are important to everyone, including saxophonists. I understand that discussing sexual orientation makes some people uncomfortable. Those who are uncomfortable with the discussion have the right to not participate, if that's their choice. But I don't think they should try to prevent the discussion from occurring.
This has been the admin position on this in regard to the other thread. It seemed a legitimate question within the context of an academic recital. There was a lot of other discussion and that was swamping the point of the thread so we did have to delete some posts. But only one was "censored" as it was offensive.

In a way this thread is good, because provided the discussion is respectful it will hopefully curtail all thew OT stuff on the other thread We like healthy debate but as you all know we also try to keep politics and offensive posts at bay.

How many zeros in a brazillian?

Seriously though, I've worked (played music) with gay musicians. At the end of the day, it didn't matter. .
I'd like to think we all think that.

As for the "importance", there is that little thing called acceptance by their peers based on how good they are as opposed to how conformal they are.
Well said!
 

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Aside from being an attempt to rehash a complaint that resulted in some ugliness in the original thread in the Classical subforum, this thread is extremely misleading. No one ever claimed that every individual musician's sexual orientation is necessarily related "to his/her sax." If that's irrelevant to you as a player, fine. The original question was about identifying LGBTQ composers who have written for the saxophone. This question is potentially of interest for academic, sociological, and historical reasons, as well as musical ones. Arguing that the question shouldn't be asked, or if asked should not be answered or discussed, is ridiculous.
 

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I hesitate to comment on threads like these because, as rightfully iterated by our wise and knowledgeable moderator Pete Thomas, we should avoid being political. This is a wonderful forum in large part because of the blessed relief from the political discourse that dominates every other medium these days.

That being said, it's tough to divorce political issues from social issues, and this is an important social issue. So, while I think it's important for these things to be discussed, I'll do my best to leave politics out of it.

It is either naive or intellectually dishonest to think that gender, ethnicity, and sexual orientation don't have anything to do with the culture of music. Creating music is sometimes an isolated experience but is most often a social experience. The social element comes into play in live performances, auditions, gig offers, tours, venue interaction, and countless thousands of other circumstances, but you probably get the idea.

Throughout most of western civilization, life has been much, much more difficult for non-white, non-heterosexual, and non-male humans than it has been for white, heterosexual, male humans. This is not opinion, it's science that is verified by overwhelming mountains of data. There is nuance, to be sure, and there are exceptions and outliers, but the data is still in overwhelming support of the trend. The music industry is unquestionably a part of that trend. I have plenty of first-hand anecdotal witness evidence of homophobia, misogyny, and racism in my experiences as a professional musician, but that doesn't even matter compared to the above mountains of data. Pretending that homophobia doesn't exist doesn't make it go away, and if I myself haven't experienced it toward myself because of my heterosexuality, it's silly of me to assume that nobody experiences it. It undoubtedly exists in your own community much more than you might realize.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with studying music specifically by LGBT musicians. There's nothing wrong with asking questions about it, there's nothing wrong with discussing it, there's nothing wrong with inquiring specifically into that subject, and in fact doing so might be highly constructive and helpful to a historically disenfranchised demographic. It could help elevate and inspire members of a community that have suffered a lot more than I have. Things like that ARE important, and they will be for as long as music has a social element, which will probably be always.

Hopefully the above isn't seen as political. If it is, mods, do what you gotta do! I fully support the political neutrality of this forum.
 

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How many zeros in a brazillian?

Seriously though, I've worked (played music) with gay musicians. At the end of the day, it didn't matter. They did the job regardless of classification (LGBTQASDFJKL: or whatever). I my experiences, sexual orientation wasn't important to being able to make music.
I would say that you and the OP have both missed the point of the previous thread, and people's concern about this one, actually....

Perhaps someday it will become clearer to you.
 

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That being said, it's tough to divorce political issues from social issues, and this is an important social issue. So, while I think it's important for these things to be discussed, I'll do my best to leave politics out of it.
Thanks for specifying this, actually. I would not categorize this topic as Political, actually. It is far larger than that.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with studying music specifically by LGBT musicians. There's nothing wrong with asking questions about it, there's nothing wrong with discussing it, there's nothing wrong with inquiring specifically into that subject, and in fact doing so might be highly constructive and helpful to a historically disenfranchised demographic. It could help elevate and inspire members of a community that have suffered a lot more than I have. Things like that ARE important, and they will be for as long as music has a social element, which will probably be always.

Hopefully the above isn't seen as political. If it is, mods, do what you gotta do! I fully support the political neutrality of this forum.
+1
 
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