[mmichel]

1. No problem. In my upcoming video I will show the dynamic response without any music and I will choose a different sound for the demonstration.
To better understand the effects or control of dynamic response, you need to search for the Respiro manual.
2. No, because as you can read in the manual, you press the key C and Eb together, and blow through the instrument, then you press various combinations of keys on the instrument, depending on what you want to do (Change key, change resistance, switch off..)
It's actually very easy. The Emeo team has a perfect explanation of the command mode in its instructional video
3.No. In the cockpit, I must set up and verify the flight instruments. I have no problem to do the same check with the Emeo. It takes me a few seconds to set up my key and resistance
4..I found the altissimo chart very interesting. Some combinations were new to me. The altissimo can vary from one instrument to another, and I use on my alto saxophone primarily the altissimo recommended by Gerald Albright. I still want to take a little time to try all the options listed on the Emeo's altissimo chart with my alto sax and the Emeo.
As for the additional fingerings, I can consult your question with the Emeo team. I also want to know about the possibility of adding multi-phonics and overtones.
I believe that they will continue to update the Emeo as they made it for the saxophonists

Thank you for answering my questions. I look forward to your follow-up video!

 

[Guto]

I don't understand this response. Of course it won't respond acoustically like a saxophone does. If you read my post that you quoted, you'll see that I said the purpose of it is to practice saxophone technique not embouchure or breath support or whatever. The point (again, according to the people who invented the thing) is to make the keys feel as much like saxophone keys as possible.

To the extent I'm interested in it, it's for exactly that reason. It would be great to have a saxophone in my office at work, for example, that I could practice during down time. I don't need something that responds like a saxophone, just something that allows me to work on scales, patterns, etc. and for that purpose, I want something that feels as much like as saxophone in the hands as possible. I can work on tone and breath support on a real saxophone when I'm in my practice room at home.

I'm talking about the subtleties of acoustic sound you produce as you move your fingers on a real sax. As soon as you start moving a pad from the cup the sound start changing. As some cups open and others close, the sound doesn't suddenly jump from one note to the next. It's a gradual acoustic transition that will be different depending on how you coordinate your fingers. On these EWIs the transition is binary. When you cross a particular threshold on the key height a switch closes and the note jumps to the next one. There is nothing in between.

That is my main grip with my Aerophone. The hands movements don't translate between it and a real sax at all, aside from once I push certain keys with a particular fingering I get the same notes. In between notes it's a very different sensation, again very binary. So, why mimic the springs and keys mechanics when the sound will not follow the analog nature of those keys? Yamaha got it right, they reproduced the keys shapes but under them it's just a button that you click to open or close. That's more logical and more economical.

Once you get yours tell us how you like it.

 

[Felicitysax]

The Emeo concept doesn't make much sense to me.

The mechanics on a saxophone are defined by where tone holes are plus all the complications of arms and springs that bring control of the pad cups to our hands. There are lots of unevenness of comfort and feel on a sax keywork across the full range. EWIs on the other hand have the benefit of a more comfortable/even keyboard while still keeping the keys in a similar location for familiarity to sax players, but they can hardly emulate all subtleties of how a wind player can make notes sound on a real saxophone.

The Emeo combines the worst of both worlds IMO: it duplicates all the mechanical awkwardness of a real sax with the electronic sound limitations. And to finish it off, it is one of the most expensive EWIs in the market.

Other EWIs like the Aerophone AE-30 or even the Yamaha YDS-150 at least try to provide a more comfortable and even keyboard.

I don't understand this response. Of course it won't respond acoustically like a saxophone does. If you read my post that you quoted, you'll see that I said the purpose of it is to practice saxophone technique not embouchure or breath support or whatever. The point (again, according to the people who invented the thing) is to make the keys feel as much like saxophone keys as possible.

To the extent I'm interested in it, it's for exactly that reason. It would be great to have a saxophone in my office at work, for example, that I could practice during down time. I don't need something that responds like a saxophone, just something that allows me to work on scales, patterns, etc. and for that purpose, I want something that feels as much like as saxophone in the hands as possible. I can work on tone and breath support on a real saxophone when I'm in my practice room at home.

The Emeo concept doesn't make much sense to me.

The mechanics on a saxophone are defined by where tone holes are plus all the complications of arms and springs that bring control of the pad cups to our hands. There are lots of unevenness of comfort and feel on a sax keywork across the full range. EWIs on the other hand have the benefit of a more comfortable/even keyboard while still keeping the keys in a similar location for familiarity to sax players, but they can hardly emulate all subtleties of how a wind player can make notes sound on a real saxophone.

The Emeo combines the worst of both worlds IMO: it duplicates all the mechanical awkwardness of a real sax with the electronic sound limitations. And to finish it off, it is one of the most expensive EWIs in the market.

Other EWIs like the Aerophone AE-30 or even the Yamaha YDS-150 at least try to provide a more comfortable and even keyboard.

I don't understand this response. Of course it won't respond acoustically like a saxophone does. If you read my post that you quoted, you'll see that I said the purpose of it is to practice saxophone technique not embouchure or breath support or whatever. The point (again, according to the people who invented the thing) is to make the keys feel as much like saxophone keys as possible.

To the extent I'm interested in it, it's for exactly that reason. It would be great to have a saxophone in my office at work, for example, that I could practice during down time. I don't need something that responds like a saxophone, just something that allows me to work on scales, patterns, etc. and for that purpose, I want something that feels as much like as saxophone in the hands as possible. I can work on tone and breath support on a real saxophone when I'm in my practice room at home.

GreatGreat point Michael.

I don't understand this response. Of course it won't respond acoustically like a saxophone does. If you read my post that you quoted, you'll see that I said the purpose of it is to practice saxophone technique not embouchure or breath support or whatever. The point (again, according to the people who invented the thing) is to make the keys feel as much like saxophone keys as possible.

To the extent I'm interested in it, it's for exactly that reason. It would be great to have a saxophone in my office at work, for example, that I could practice during down time. I don't need something that responds like a saxophone, just something that allows me to work on scales, patterns, etc. and for that purpose, I want something that feels as much like as saxophone in the hands as possible. I can work on tone and breath support on a real saxophone when I'm in my practice room at home.

Thank you for answering my questions. I look forward to your follow-up video!

You are very welcome Michael.
Let me know if you have any other questions or suggestions for my upcoming video.
I will be glad to help. You can find me on my social media as well, Instagram: @felicitysaxophonist.
In this forum you will read bunch of nonsense from the people who didn't have any experience with the Emeo , so they can only negatively speculate.
Contact directly with the Emeo Team. Here is the Instagram link : Login • Instagram
They are an excellent team of experts. Also very helpful, very kind people and they are musicians as well.
I have received a lot of support from them.
I have a similar experience with the manufacturer of my hand made Free Wind alto saxophone by Amsterdam Winds. Friso Heindinga, was always extremely helpful , whenever I needed a help and always impeccable when repairing my saxophone. Both instruments are not cheap, but the quality is superior. And the experience is superior too.

 

[Felicitysax]

I call this marketing blurb. This device will never acoustically respond like a real sax does. It may feel like a sax on the fingers but it won't respond like one. It makes no sense to me to duplicate springs and the full mechanism when the response on the Emeo is digital. This device will never mimic the actual experience of playing a sax where every minute key movement matters on what sound you will produce. What Yamaha did by reproducing the key shapes and tying them directly to digital buttons in the simplest form makes much more sense for the "practice" goal you described.

It actually responds perfectly like the traditional saxophone. If you would watch my entire video, you would see that I made an example, playing with Bob Mintzer's saxophone solo in a very fast tempo. If there were a problem with the key mechanism or how the EMEO responds, I wouldn't be able to do it. In my next video I can play Giant Steps in fast tempo, so there's no question about it.
I actually had a problem with the EWI Akai 5000, not responding correctly , especially when my hands were cold. Plus, it was constantly switching off and I had to send it back for a repair 4 times during one year.
It was so frustrating that I even didn't sell it, but gave it away , basically brand new.
The Emeo is my best experience with the wind controller.

 

[Dr G]

Playing fast covers up the issue. Play slow argeggios or sequences of large intervals (not octaves) without articulation to show whether this sensitivity is an issue. Is was one of the things that I did not like with my WX7. I hear the glitches in your example of playing without a mouthpiece.

 

[Felicitysax]

Playing fast covers up the issue. Play slow argeggios or sequences of large intervals (not octaves) without articulation to show whether this sensitivity is an issue. Is was one of the things that I did not like with my WX7. I hear the glitches in your example of playing without a mouthpiece.

I did that for the first time right in front the camera and wasn't familiar with playing without blowing. I also didn't adjust latency , that's why it sounds less precise. I actually didn't want to add that part to my video, because I wasn't happy with that example. Here is one of my favorite saxophone players , Rosario Giuliani playing the EMEO

 

[Guto]

It actually responds perfectly like the traditional saxophone. If you would watch my entire video, you would see that I made an example, playing with Bob Mintzer's saxophone solo in a very fast tempo. If there were a problem with the key mechanism or how the EMEO responds, I wouldn't be able to do it. In my next video I can play Giant Steps in fast tempo, so there's no question about it.
I actually had a problem with the EWI Akai 5000, not responding correctly , especially when my hands were cold. Plus, it was constantly switching off and I had to send it back for a repair 4 times during one year.
It was so frustrating that I even didn't sell it, but gave it away , basically brand new.
The Emeo is my best experience with the wind controller.

That's interesting. I worry less about the fast tempos, where the keys do close very fast, transitions will be imperceptible. I'd think it's at slow tempos where these differences will show. But you speak from experience. I can't question that. I hope someday I'll run into one and will be able to try it myself.

 

[LostConn]

I'm talking about the subtleties of acoustic sound you produce as you move your fingers on a real sax. As soon as you start moving a pad from the cup the sound start changing. As some cups open and others close, the sound doesn't suddenly jump from one note to the next. It's a gradual acoustic transition that will be different depending on how you coordinate your fingers. On these EWIs the transition is binary. When you cross a particular threshold on the key height a switch closes and the note jumps to the next one. There is nothing in between.

I think this is an example of a "the perfect is the enemy of the good" critique. The Emeo doesn't have to be a 100 percent authentic simulation of a saxophone to be a useful tool.

Yamaha's Silent Brass device is popular because it's cheap and easy to use. They didn't have to simulate the mechanics of a trumpet. Just shove the electronic mute into your own, real trumpet, and you're ready to play, silently. But as we all know, a saxophone cannot be muted in that fashion, and the sax mutes that do exist are generally clumsy and awkward -- ungainly suitcases built to hold your whole sax while you try to play it inside.

So, as I mentioned in a post way upstream, while the Emeo may be overkill for rare or occasional silent practicing, if you find yourself in frequent need of something that feels like a real saxophone under your fingers, but is still quiet, this instrument could be the answer. I try to imagine what I might do if I had band rehearsal once a week, and had a full-time job (and thus very limited opportunities to squeeze in practice sessions), but resided in a place where I absolutely could not play a normal saxophone because of the sonic impact on other people. Would I just never practice? Or would I try to find a compromise that felt as much like a sax as possible, while ensuring that no one would be disturbed?

 

[Felicitysax]

That's interesting. I worry less about the fast tempos, where the keys do close very fast, transitions will be imperceptible. I'd think it's at slow tempos where these differences will show. But you speak from experience. I can't question that. I hope someday I'll run into one and will be able to try it myself.

The EMEO will responds exactly as the conventional saxophone. If for example, your fingers are slow , or you don't play very precisely in some difficult exercise, maybe not closing the keys enough, you will hear it on the Emeo. It actually helps to improve your technique.
Switching from the EMEO to my alto saxophone is very easy , and I feel, I am not creating any bad habits, because the EMEO doesn't have any slides , buttons, no mouthpiece biting.
The design and the purpose of the EMEO is very clean and simple. I would like to make another video , where I can show more about the dynamic response, make some technical demonstration and also show more information about the ImoxPlus Respiro and the sophisticated sounds it has available.
By the way, here is the YouTube channel of the EMEO . They have some great musicians playing the EMEO https://youtube.com/channel/UCRGQ82hLsj-N0lkTckHTNhg

 

[Felicitysax]

I think this is an example of a "the perfect is the enemy of the good" critique. The Emeo doesn't have to be a 100 percent authentic simulation of a saxophone to be a useful tool.

Yamaha's Silent Brass device is popular because it's cheap and easy to use. They didn't have to simulate the mechanics of a trumpet. Just shove the electronic mute into your own, real trumpet, and you're ready to play, silently. But as we all know, a saxophone cannot be muted in that fashion, and the sax mutes that do exist are generally clumsy and awkward -- ungainly suitcases built to hold your whole sax while you try to play it inside.

So, as I mentioned in post way upstream, while the Emeo may be overkill for rare or occasional silent practicing, if you find yourself in frequent need of something that feels like a real saxophone under your fingers, but is still quiet, this instrument could be the answer. I try to imagine what I might do if I had band rehearsal once a week, and had a full-time job (and thus very limited opportunities to squeeze in practice sessions), but resided in a place where I absolutely could not play a normal saxophone because of the sonic impact on other people. Would I just never practice? Or would I try to find a compromise that felt as much like a sax as possible, while ensuring that no one would be disturbed?

Actually this is a very good topic! Well said.
I want to share with you in my next video the example of the flight simulator and how aviation has progressed through flight simulation. And make a comparison with the practice tool like the EMEO.
In the aviation high risks and high costs are involved, so the flight simulation has a longer history, and is well accepted by the pilots. You will never hear a pilot to say it's a stupid video game.
Meanwhile, in the music, you could have a delirious conversation about the use of the practice instrument like the EMEO.
"Expensive toy ", " it will never replace the saxophone " is the primary opinion of the people who doesn't want to understand the point of the practice instrument.
The flight simulator is designed to be as realistic as possible to the real aircraft, yet the motion must be simulate.
They have been disastrous accidents due to inappropriate flight training in the simulator. (When the simulator wasn't corresponding to the real aircraft)
That's why I like the idea that EMEO doesn't have any unnecessary features, slides, buttons ➡ No bad habit forming
The EMEO team has made a great decision when not replicating the saxophone sound (no ugly saxophone samples in the library. Can we applaud that? ??) And made the EMEO as a practice horn.
Although, if you are a creative musician, you have got not only a practice instrument, but a very cool MIDI wind controller with a very cool software like the ImoxPlus Respiro.

 

[mmichel]

Let me know if you have any other questions or suggestions for my upcoming video.

Thank you Felicity. Two suggested demonstrations that I think would be really useful:

• To deliberately demonstrate the reproduction by the Emeo of several very different articulations, such as staccato vs. legato vs. breath attack.
• To go through the entire initialization sequence required for a practice session in real time (i.e., turning on and plugging in the Emeo, starting the software, switching the Emeo to your preferred key & resistance settings), so that we can get a sense of the complexity of this sequence and the amount of time that it typically takes.

Also, I'm not sure if there's an easy way to demonstrate this in a video, but I think it would be useful to give us some sense of the audio latency (which I imagine differs depending on whether you're using a cable connection versus a bluetooth connection), even if this just consists of reporting your subjective impression of the latency.

 

[Felicitysax]

Thank you Felicity. Two suggested demonstrations that I think would be really useful:

• To deliberately demonstrate the reproduction by the Emeo of several very different articulations, such as staccato vs. legato vs. breath attack.
• To go through the entire initialization sequence required for a practice session in real time (i.e., turning on and plugging in the Emeo, starting the software, switching the Emeo to your preferred key & resistance settings), so that we can get a sense of the complexity of this sequence and the amount of time that it typically takes.

Also, I'm not sure if there's an easy way to demonstrate this in a video, but I think it would be useful to give us some sense of the audio latency (which I imagine differs depending on whether you're using a cable connection versus a bluetooth connection), even if this just consists of reporting your subjective impression of the latency.

Hello Michael,
Thank you very much for your great suggestions and also a very pleasant conversation that you offered me. (Focused on the topic and no judging my capabilities or physical aspect.)
I will be very pleased to make another demonstration in my video and I hope to bring valuable information to the other saxophonists as well.
My best wishes and greetings from Norway.

 

[Pete Thomas]

you'll see that I said the purpose of it is to practice saxophone technique not embouchure or breath support or whatever.

I always think if embouchure and breath as absolutely the most important aspects of saxophone technique.

 

[mmichel]

I always think if embouchure and breath as absolutely the most important aspects of saxophone technique.

That's fine. People also often use the term "technique" to refer specifically to finger technique, which is the way I'm using it here.
In any event, I think the context makes my meaning pretty clear.

 

[Pete Thomas]

That's fine. People also often use the term "technique" to refer specifically to finger technique,

But I'm absolutely sure you know as well as I do that is possibly a bit misleading. If this a sold as a "practice" saxophone rather than just another wind controller, then it should be exactly that - as opposed to something that only helps practise fingering. And it's probably the misconception that saxophone techniqe only applies to fingering, that somebody might develop what could have been a very useful device but only half got there.

I noticed from the website:

Why does the Emeo not have pitch bend or bite control?

First of all, the Emeo is a practice horn and we have made an effort to keep it pure and simple, and so we have not added unnecessary features which distract from the playing experience.

So it defines practising as not including unnecessary features like being able to bend the pitch or "bite" having any control - which implies you cannot even use this to practise something as "unnecessary" as vibrato???

(I'll eat those words of course if it does actually allow you to do vibrato)

 

[Felicitysax]

But I'm absolutely sure you know as well as I do that is possibly a bit misleading. If this a sold as a "practice" saxophone rather than just another wind controller, then it should be exactly that - as opposed to something that only helps practise fingering. And it's probably the misconception that saxophone techniqe only applies to fingering, that somebody might develop what could have been a very useful device but only half got there.

I noticed from the website:

Why does the Emeo not have pitch bend or bite control?

First of all, the Emeo is a practice horn and we have made an effort to keep it pure and simple, and so we have not added unnecessary features which distract from the playing experience.

So it defines practising as not including unnecessary features like being able to bend the pitch or "bite" having any control - which implies you cannot even use this to practise something as "unnecessary" as vibrato???

(I'll eat those words of course if it does actually allow you to do vibrato)

I would recommend you to read Respiro manual.

https://www.imoxplus.com/site/images/headers/RespiroManual01

.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I would recommend you to read Respiro manual.

https://www.imoxplus.com/site/images/headers/RespiroManual01

.

I can't because the link doesn't work, but are you saying it is capable of a realistic and responsive vibrato? If so I still don't understand why no pitch bend

 

[Felicitysax]

I would recommend that any member of this discussion study something about the Emeo, before they express their views.
At least you'll sound smarter.

Website: www.emeomusic.com
Manual: Specs & Manual | The Emeo
Altissimo fingering guide https://0f67f07b-967c-4464-85a8-9f2...d/414691_13f80f4a85ab441f81dcc02b0de42af4.pdf
ImoxPlus Respiro manual: https://www.imoxplus.com/site/images/headers/RespiroManual01.pdf
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRGQ82hLsj-N0lkTckHTNhg/videos

 

[Felicitysax]

I can't because the link doesn't work, but are you saying it is cpabale of a realistic and responsive vibrato? If so I still don't understand why no pitch bend

I can't because the link doesn't work, but are you saying it is cpabale of a realistic and responsive vibrato? If so I still don't understand why no pitch bend

Please visit www.emeomusic.com or www.imoxplus.com
The Emeo doesn't have onboard sounds. It comes with the Respiro software. I have explained it in my video

 

[Pete Thomas]

I would recommend that any member of this discussion study something about the Emeo, before they express their views.
At least you'll sound smarter.

That sounds a little bit insulting. Someone might assume you were replying to me as your post was immediately below mine, and made it appear I had not studied something about the Emeo.

The Emeo doesn't have onboard sounds. It comes with the Respiro software. I have explained it in my video

If you had botherd to read my post you will see I didn't mention anything at all about onboard sounds. It doesn't bother me whether it has or not. You'll also see my post was based on actually having read the website (I quoted part of it), so no need to be condescending and suggest I go to the website!

As I had read the website I already know there are no onboard sounds, because (guess what?) I can read.

And as for reading the manual, yes I could do that but as I said the link is dead (500 Server error). I know there is a manual on the website and I could see nothing in that about vibrato, so referring me to that in order to find out about pitch or vibrato makes no sense.

I think there could be some language barrier going on here.