[RogerMKVI]

I'm considering a new student type horn for my 12 yr old. He's using my old King Cleveland 615 tenor at the moment, but it seems as though every few months something needs repair. It's more a nuisance for me than anything else, however, I know it is distracting for my son. I appreciate a good horn (I also have a Mk VI), but I'm not sure that my son does, at least not yet. Part of me just wants to go on Ebay and buy him a $300 sax, see if he is still interested a couple years from now, and then get him something more decent. If you search the web, including this forum, you will find a plethora of negative comments about these types of horns. However, it seems like most of the people posting have never owned or played one of these. In addition, those who have, are usually evaluating it from an "adult" perspective. Are they really unplayable, or so out of tune that he couldn't play with his middle school band? To me, it would seem analogous to a bicycle. Can your child learn to ride successfully on a $100 bike, or does he need a $1000 bike?

Maybe my ultimate question is, has anyone bought one of these type horns for their child and how did that decision turn out?

Thanks.
Roger

 

[Koen88]

i think you'll be repairing / adjusting the $300 sax just as often as the king cleveland.. I had the same with a new €600 saxophone here.. it kept having leeks and never felt really comfortable..

 

[artstove]

Did you have the Cleveland overhauled? They are decent horns, and probably better than any $300 eBay horn. If things keep breaking, it could be that he is rough on the horn, in which case the new cheapies worn't be any better, and might be worse. Or it could be because the Cleveland has not been maintained, and things are wearing out. If it is the latter, just get the Cleveland overhauled would be my recommendation.

 

[bandmommy]

I have not purchased one of these ebay "Bargain Basement Instrument Shaped Objects" for any of my children. BUT..
I have worked in a Middle school band room where many parents HAVE. These weren't limited to saxophones, but included clarinets, flutes, trumpets, and one baritone horn.
Band Now, Selman, a few Cecilio, Venus, Lark...and some that I can't remember the name on them.
I can honestly say that these instruments were one of the reasons most of the kids who had them quit band.
Tune one note, the rest were WAY off. Cheaply made keywork that wouldn't hold an adjustment, 'pearls' that dropped off on a regular basis, pads with barely enough shellac/glue to hold on a fake fingernail, sloppy valves, poor quality fit and finish for the most part.... and... If you could get a tech to do any repairs they wouldn't guarantee the work.
The only one on the list that actually survived through 1 full year of beginning band was a Venus tenor. That one might be bargain basement option that I might actually suggest for Marching Band.

For a little more you can find a better made/playing instrument that can and will hold up to most 'beginner abuse'.

 

[JL]

Part of me just wants to go on Ebay and buy him a $300 sax, see if he is still interested a couple years from now, and then get him something more decent. If you search the web, including this forum, you will find a plethora of negative comments about these types of horns.

Maybe my ultimate question is, has anyone bought one of these type horns for their child and how did that decision turn out?

Roger, what types of horns are you referring to? Do you mean any horn you might find on E-bay for $300? There's a chance (a very slim one) you could find a good horn at that price, but highly unlikely, especially a tenor! There is no reason your King should need to go to the shop any more than a MKVI. Unless it needs more work than you're having the tech do on it. It might need an overhaul, and maybe isn't worth getting one.

In any case, for $300 you'll almost certainly end up with something at least as bad as that King, and probably worse. I think your son would appreciate a good horn. It doesn't have to be a MKVI. There are a lot of new and used horns you could get him, but you might need to budget a bit more money.

 

[Tony5175]

A yamaha 23 is a good beginner horn. I rented one and it was a great horn. However, the Yamaha 475 is only around $20 more and I'm guessing it would be better considering the 23 is advertised as a beginner and the 475 is advertised as an intermediate. Not to mention that you could resell the Yamaha later if he doesn't stick with it. Good luck!

 

[Sigmund451]

^^^ +10000 YAS-23

It wont live with your tech.

 

[eugeneherman]

I have purchased several Vito/Beaugnier saxes from eBay... I just saw a minty alto sell yesterday for $227... Excellent horns, Beaugniers!

 

[ThreeSixTwoFive]

Wow, lots of opinions here!

My two cents: One of my students plays a new intermediate Yamaha. I tried it and was frankly disappointed. Every 23 I played was better. Go for a used 23. Another plus for the 23 is that every repair guy knows that horn well and can get parts readily.

As for vintage horns, I have owned and played many bargain-priced vintage horns. Many are wonderful and that includes one old Cleveland tenor like you have, but condition is the troublesome issue. So many old horns have been well loved and played to the point of having sloppy worn keywork. That will be an expensive and possibly undoable repair. Perhaps that is why your horn is in the shop so much. Old Bueschers and Buescher stencils are less pricey than old Conns and have good intonation to boot. I think they are the best bet in vintage horns.

But for shear practicality, it is hard to go wrong with an old YTS23 (or the Vito version). It will hold its value and your son will have the advantage of a modern keyboard and good intonation. It does cost about twice of $300 though.

Be glad that your kid plays the saxophone! Best of luck.

 

[NissanVintageSax]

I have purchased several Vito/Beaugnier saxes from eBay... I just saw a minty alto sell yesterday for $227... Excellent horns, Beaugniers!

I second that motion, except one thing: The bell brace would not hold up to serious young beginner abuse (nor does the bell brace of most anything older than a Y*S23). There are many great sounding saxes, that keep in regulation very well to normal/professional use, but would not hold up to the abuse most kids put them through!

 

[JL]

... I just saw a minty alto sell yesterday for $227... Excellent horns, Beaugniers!

But isn't the OP looking for a tenor??! Why is it so common on here to mix apples & oranges?

 

[FremontSax]

an old friend said his 12 ye old daughter wanted to play tenor sax and asked me about if i had any ideas. turns out she is already good at the flute... i sent her a vito "Duke" tenor sax that the local tech cleaned up and re-padded.

I just might find out how that bell brace stands up. Oh she sent me a nice card.

 

[Sigmund451]

But isn't the OP looking for a tenor??! Why is it so common on here to mix apples & oranges?

Cuz I cant read or taste the difference.

 

[eugeneherman]

Sorry if my alto/tenor Beaugnier reference was unclear... My avatar photo is a Vito/Beaugnier 'tenor' that cost me $383 on eBay... Minty with original pads, stand, neck sack & 3 mouthpieces! Was 24 mos ago!?...

 

[eugeneherman]

& Sig!... Yes, I agree... When talking T&A, one often gets enthused bout' stuff. T&A always gets my attention!

 

[Starsax A2]

Roger, I've owned several of the Ebay horns, specifically the Venus brand. It was about a 60/40 mix: 60% were really good and solid, and 40% wouldn't hold adjustment at all.
You'd probably be better off to put the $300 into the Cleveland and then put some pressure on your youngster to take better care of it.

 

[JL]

You'd probably be better off to put the $300 into the Cleveland and then put some pressure on your youngster to take better care of it.

There's your answer (well said, starsax!), unless you are willing to spend more money.

 

[Dr G]

Cuz I cant read or taste the difference.

<applause>

 

[69193]

Roger, I've owned several of the Ebay horns, specifically the Venus brand. It was about a 60/40 mix: 60% were really good and solid, and 40% wouldn't hold adjustment at all.
You'd probably be better off to put the $300 into the Cleveland and then put some pressure on your youngster to take better care of it.

Yup. If he's so rough with an antique horn that he's causing damage on a regular basis, I can't imagine that a new/cheap/ebay horn is going to last long in his "care". In failing to take care of your horn, is he angling for an "upgrade" ?

 

[NissanVintageSax]

Sorry if my alto/tenor Beaugnier reference was unclear... My avatar photo is a Vito/Beaugnier 'tenor' that cost me $383 on eBay... Minty with original pads, stand, neck sack & 3 mouthpieces! Was 24 mos ago!?...

The Vito/Beaugnier Tenor I used to own, I bought on e-bay for $405, put $75 of repairs in it (bell brace problems! and a couple pads corks), bought my current Couf Superba II on ebay for $850, then sold the French Vito (Model 38) for $880! The Model 36,37, and Americanas (LH bell keys) usually go for less. The Model 38 and 39 (RH bell keys) usually go for more.

Great playing, great sounding saxes, a pro horn for cheap, but they do have weak bell braces.