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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
what you think?
I currently own a Keilwerth New King series IV tenor and have an opportunity to trade it for B&S 2001 tenor.
I have B&S 2001 as my main alto and I love it.

What you think is a better tenor?
 

· Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
ALTO: Medusa- 82zii, TENOR: Medusa, BARI: b901, SOP: sc991
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I would definitely vote for the 2001 tenor. They sound different though. 2001 sounds and feels more like a Mark VI whereas the Keilwerth has a rounder sound and takes more air (IMO).
 

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what you think?
I currently own a Keilwerth New King series IV tenor and have an opportunity to trade it for B&S 2001 tenor.
I have B&S 2001 as my main alto and I love it.

What you think is a better tenor?
Condition is everything when considering old instruments. How do they each play? As Soybean notes, they are two different animals. If you have committed any time on the Keilwerth, you may not like the B&S - or it may be the answer to what you are missing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I played for a couple of year on this New King. It's still in a very good condition. It plays well and in tune with different type of mouthpieces, I was playing both closed (4cm) yamaha custom and open metal otto link stm 8. I like the tone of it but I don't like the ergonomics and the action that much.
I agree with Soybean it really needs a lot of air and support. It seemed to me much more open than other tenors which I also tried and I thought about them as a big altos. Never had opportunity to play on that many different tenor horns tho..
the b&s seems to be in a very good condition. Was re-padded recently, the current owner removed the lacquer from the neck tho. It is an early version of 2001, it doesn't have the g# lifter mechanism like my alto does. But overall it looks very well.
 

· Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2015-
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I played for a couple of year on this New King. It's still in a very good condition. It plays well and in tune with different type of mouthpieces, I was playing both closed (4cm) yamaha custom and open metal otto link stm 8. I like the tone of it but I don't like the ergonomics and the action that much.
If you like the tone, but don't like the ergos, then the B&S may be a stepping stone, but not your final tenor. And that's alright. Many of us have gone through several horns before finding The One.

I agree with Soybean it really needs a lot of air and support. It seemed to me much more open than other tenors which I also tried and I thought about them as a big altos.
Needing more air may be a result of leaks, or you may need to step up your concept of playing tenor. If your air support is just sufficient for alto, it may be lacking on any tenor, and more evident on a bigger bore horn.

the b&s seems to be in a very good condition. Was re-padded recently, the current owner removed the lacquer from the neck tho. It is an early version of 2001, it doesn't have the g# lifter mechanism like my alto does. But overall it looks very well.
Don't let the lack of a G# lifter be an issue. It is interesting that Keilwerths also have a reputation for sticky pads. Most other saxophones in the world do not have a G# lifter, yet play just fine. If you really need the lifter, it is time to replace the pad (if an original sticky J-K pad), or clean the pad and tone hole, then adopt a better maintenance practice of cleaning your horn after play.

Enjoy the Quest. Happiness is playing a great tenor.
 

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I have several modern B&S tenors. Two of them have the G# lifter. I don't find the them to be sticky any more so than other horns. It makes no difference to me having that lifter, but I wonder why its not standard on all horns. I also own a Keilwerth SX90. Though not the same as a New King I kind of have an idea of how they would compare. I think Soybean's description is accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
thanks all!
I need to play test. I know. But it is difficult in the pandemic situation. Will have to wait with that. hope the B&S won't be sold before.
My New King doesn't have original pads anymore and there is no problem with stickiness. However my B&S 2001 alto which I bought new, had a period of super sticky pads. I changed the worst ones and the problem was gone. I really love the alto that is why I was thinking about the 2001 tenor .
 

· Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
ALTO: Medusa- 82zii, TENOR: Medusa, BARI: b901, SOP: sc991
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By the way, it would be very easy to refinish just the neck of a tenor for someone who does this kind of work.
 

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By the way, it would be very easy to refinish just the neck of a tenor for someone who does this kind of work.
Easy to do, but difficult to match lacquer color; easier to have it silver plated.
 

· Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2010
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I wouldnt worry about the neck in terms of how it plays, but then I use lacquered "Medusa" necks on both of my earthtone "Allora" horns.

They dont play any different to the original bead-blasted necks, I just like how they look with the matching lacquered bell flare.

10 or 15 years ago there seemed to be quite a few B&S made "spare" necks floating about on ebay and the like. I wonder where they all are now.

FWIW, while I really like my B&S made alto, I think the Tenor is a step up again from there.
 

· Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
ALTO: Medusa- 82zii, TENOR: Medusa, BARI: b901, SOP: sc991
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10 or 15 years ago there seemed to be quite a few B&S made "spare" necks floating about on ebay and the like. I wonder where they all are now.
That's true. I was able to buy a couple back then, but they are rarely seen on ebay anymore.

FWIW, while I really like my B&S made alto, I think the Tenor is a step up again from there.
I agree. I also think the later altos were a step up from the alto 2001 (model, not year).
 

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I agree. I also think the later altos were a step up from the alto 2001 (model, not year).
I bought a very late "Courtois"(16xxx?) stencil for a young protege back in the day on behalf of his mom, and that was indeed the finest horn Ive ever played. I was quite tempted to welch on the deal and keep that one, but "my word is my bond" and all that...Damned ethics:(
 

· Forum Contributor 2017
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I have both a New King and a B&S Medusa tenors and I can't decide which one I like better because they are very different. B&S is brighter and has absolutely no resistance and the JK has a bit of resistance and has much darker tone.

Hard to choose
 

· Forum Contributor 2017
“I play sax but mostly it plays me”
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10,538 Posts
I have both a New King and a B&S Medusa tenors and I can't decide which one I like better because they are very different. B&S is brighter and has absolutely no resistance and the JK has a bit of resistance and has much darker tone.

Hard to choose
 
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· Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
ALTO: Medusa- 82zii, TENOR: Medusa, BARI: b901, SOP: sc991
Joined
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8,123 Posts
I bought a very late "Courtois"(16xxx?) stencil for a young protege back in the day on behalf of his mom, and that was indeed the finest horn Ive ever played.…
Some of those Courtois horns were just gorgeous. Dave Kessler had some on the website that were stunning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
my b&S 2001 alto is quite late model. so called serie IV. I compared it to earlier B&S 2001 altos and i like serie IV more, there are some differences in the keywork (alternate f and 3#f key have different more comfortabe shape, Selmer style, while earlier are rectagngular like in older blue label B&S, the connector between bell and body is more solid in serie IV, there is this g# lifter and some other difference which I dont remember at the moment.
this b&s tenor is an early one, so it has flat bell body brace, rectangular f and f# keys, no g# lifter.
 
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