[tenor_dad]

Hi sax players... I'm the father of a new tenor player in 6th grade, and not a musician myself (a lifelong regret!). I'm here to seek help with a problem. I've already brought it to the band teacher, via email (can't meet because of corona), but he didn't have any suggestions.

My son has recently started complaining that he needs to blow much harder to get a note out of the instrument. This situation started without any apparent cause. It's hard enough for him airstream-wise that I can't get him to practice.... he just gives up and puts it down. Whatever the problem is, it seems to be in the mouthpiece, because it manifests even when just blowing into that - no horn involved.

Of course the first thing I suspected was the reed. We have a plastic reed, bought at the band teacher's recommendation. The brand is Legere, and it's only about 6 months old. I wondered if it was getting stiffer or something, over time. When I bend it with my fingers, it feels roughly as stiff as I remember from when we bought it new - hard to tell any change. Close inspection (I need a magnifier) reveals there are some tiny cracks in the soft end of the reed. There are no chips of any observable size.

Have you ever encountered this kind of problem? If you say that this is a never-heard-of situation, with no predictable reason why it would happen, I can focus more on the kid. He has a history of complaining about health problems that are not really real... and I would not be terribly surprised if this turns out to be more an emotional reaction to not being with his school bandmates for such a long time. Although he appears to really enjoy the instrument, he never did like practicing on his own at home much. But I don't want to start out assuming that... wanna make sure there are no real technical issues first.

Any help is much appreciated in advance.

 

[lesacks]

I have no music teaching experience and hope some teachers pitch in with proper advice. Three things to consider.
1/ The kid could practice with a friend over zoom/WhatsApp etc. Just not play duets
2/ It could be he's biting too hard or not taking enough MP in etc. dial-ing in a mouthpieces is an exercise. There are YouTubes and webpages etc. But experimenting with different "bite" positions, pressure etc is time well spent; even with a tuner app (makes the exercise more of a game). Striving to get a relaxed but in tune and stable tone...
3/ pick up the sax yourself. You won't be the first to use the Corona restrictions to do so!

 

[rcpayne]

Why not get another reed to see if that solves the problem. Get a few at different strengths for him to try. Forcing your son to practice is not a great idea. If he wants to practice he will. If he loses interest I don't see any point in making him practice. If he is interested you should get him a teacher. That's who you should be bringing this problem too.

 

[jski2011]

I use Legere reeds and they do go bad, I usually start to suspect reed issues when certain notes get a little weird for lack of a better term, also don't know what size reed your son is using you/he might try experimenting with some cane reeds in different strengths which I know at least at my local music stores can be purchased in singles, and which would give your son the option of trying different types sizes etc. at a lot less money then a single Legere until he lands on something he is comfortable with,
also please make sure the horn is in good playing condition, nothing is worse or more discouraging then trying to play a horn that has leaks ( a sign of having to blow harder to produce notes ) or is not in good mechanical function,

 

[jd]

Legere reeds are hard to play for me and I’ve been playing for long long time . I’ve found the easiest synthetics are fibracell maybe in a 2 strength . I suspect it will make a big difference

 

[A Greene]

Why not get another reed to see if that solves the problem. Get a few at different strengths for him to try. Forcing your son to practice is not a great idea. If he wants to practice he will. If he loses interest I don't see any point in making him practice. If he is interested you should get him a teacher.

I agree with the first part, I'd definitely try a new reed. However, 20 years teaching 6th graders has taught me that they rarely do anything unless there's a structure provided by parents. I'm not talking about the phenon player that practices night and day but the regular kid. No need to 'force' kids but having a regular 20 minute practice time each day built into a kids schedule makes life easy. Of course kids will 'roll their eyes' and do what the do but will ultimately stomp off to practice and then move on to YouTube or Video games. By 9th grade, they'll have enough skills and experience to decide if this is something they'd like to continue.

I always tell my band parents, "It's amazing how talented kids become when they practice."

On a side note, outside of Jazz Ensemble, I rarely have kids play tenor saxophone full time. The band parts are EXTREMELY BORING and are doubled everywhere. Even the Alto parts are lacking in middle school but at least they'll be playing and sitting with friends. Good Luck.

 

[saxoclese]

Have him play on just the "tone producer"---the mouthpiece and neck. The note to match is E concert (E on the piano). If this is easy to blow and produces a clear sound when using lots of air, the problem is with the saxophone. There are several places on the upper part of the saxophone where leaks sometimes occur that can cause the instrument to sound "stuffy" and become hard to blow. If the "tone producer" is hard to blow and make a tone on, the problem is with the set-up---reed or mouthpiece or possibly "pilot error".

 

[JayeLID]

Have him play on just the "tone producer"---the mouthpiece and neck. The note to match is E concert (E on the piano). If this is easy to blow and produces a clear sound when using lots of air, the problem is with the saxophone. There are several places on the upper part of the saxophone where leaks sometimes occur that can cause the instrument to sound "stuffy" and become hard to blow. If the "tone producer" is hard to blow and make a tone on, the problem is with the set-up---reed or mouthpiece or possibly "pilot error".

Indeedy !!!!....

Dad states this has happened only recently...which would intimate that his kid WAS able to produce a tone relatively easily, then it became difficult. Yes, could be reed, but to me my "sax leak' radar is pinged.

Take the advice of saxoclese, above, Dad. Could be the sax has to get to a repair shop (don't be alarmed, oftentimes it can be a single leak, easily fixable, which can wreak havoc on the whole horn)

 

[nigeld]

I suggest that you take the neck off the sax and have a look down the bore to see if anything has got stuck down there. It happens.
Ditto with the neck.

 

[Alain Gen]

Indeedy !!!!....

Dad states this has happened only recently...which would intimate that his kid WAS able to produce a tone relatively easily, then it became difficult. Yes, could be reed, but to me my "sax leak' radar is pinged.

Take the advice of saxoclese, above, Dad. Could be the sax has to get to a repair shop (don't be alarmed, oftentimes it can be a single leak, easily fixable, which can wreak havoc on the whole horn)

Tenor_dad says that the issue manifests itself with the mouthpiece alone...

 

[JayeLID]

Tenor_dad says that the issue manifests itself with the mouthpiece alone...

Thanks, I just noticed that. Sounds like a simple solution, then, really....

 

[turf3]

I'd get a new reed of the same type and strength, plus I'd get some cane reeds too. Maybe a box of #2 Rico, a box of #2.5 Rico to start off with. In my limited experience with plastic reeds I've found cane to be a lot easier to play over the full range of the horn with good tone - but there are many others who really like the plastics.

Also make sure he's properly attaching the reed. It should be centered side to side and the tip of the reed, when deflected down to the curved facing, should be just even with the tip of the mouthpiece, neither hanging off nor falling short. It is easy for a beginner to lose sight of basic stuff. Just for a point of reference, even after 40+ years of playing it takes me a couple minutes to get a reed really posiitioned just right to my taste and I have to get under some good light to really line it up. Sure, I can swap a reed in about 10 seconds on the bandstand if I have to, but if I am able to take my time it's not an instant "slap it on and play". So your son can expect to take a little bit of time to get the thing aligned correctly.

 

[Manitou]

have "you" tried blowing on the mpc by itself? if you get a tone, have your son do the same and see what happens.

after 6 months, several things are possible. one, his embouchure has gotten strong enough that he's overpowering the reed - two, the reed is worn out or damaged. speaking from personal experience - when a beginner gets frustrated they are probably going to bite down harder, which in this case would only exacerbate the problem.

re practice - i'd suggest buying a used yamaha for yourself. there are people on this forum who can get you a well regulated horn for 5-600. play with him - he gets father and son time and you get to accomplish lifelong goal. also, you'll understand his pain / pleasure.

 

[saxoclese]

In my experience as a beginning band teacher in my former life I found it very difficult for beginning saxophone and clarinet students to play on the mouthpiece alone. That is why I always recommend the mouthpiece and barrel or mouthpiece and neck. As students become more advanced working on just the mouthpiece is valuable to learn "voicing".

 

[Pete Thomas]

I'm here to seek help with a problem. I've already brought it to the band teacher, via email (can't meet because of corona), but he didn't have any suggestions.

It's sad that unqualified people can get a job teaching people to play instruments. The answer is obvious as you can see from the responses. If the problem manifests with just the mouthpiece, it could be the reed, the ligature or some mouthpiece damage. First thing to try is a new reed (they don't last forever) but also check the ligature appears to be holding the reed firmly. Failing that look for mouthpiece damage. All these things a basic teacher could have advised.

 

[Sacks Of Phones]

It's sad that unqualified people can get a job teaching people to play instruments.

"Band Teacher", not the same as "Saxophone Teacher."

 

[Pete Thomas]

"Band Teacher", not the same as "Saxophone Teacher."

Obviously not, but at least they should have a suggestion such as "try a new reed" or have it checked out by an expert."

 

[Sacks Of Phones]

Obviously not, but at least they should have a suggestion such as "try a new reed" or have it checked out by an expert."

Some are better than others. When my nephew was a senior in high school about 12 years ago, the band director/teacher was so clueless that my nephew took over the rehearsals. The school system hired the band director simply because she was fresh out of school and inexpensive.

Now my nephew, an accomplished keyboardist and good saxophonist, is a school band director/teacher.....a good one.

 

[turf3]

Well, GOOD music ed. programs require their students to demonstrate adequate proficiency on all the common band instruments, to the level of being able to instruct beginners through intermediate students. Dealing with reeds would be a basic part of "single reed proficiency".

But you know what you call the person who graduated last in the class of some podunk no-count school? "Band Director".

 

[saxoclese]

Without seeing the mouthpiece and reed up close, the student's embouchure, his hands and holding position, and having the opportunity to put a leak light in the saxophone and check the neck tenon for leaks, the best any of us can do is guess. I'm not inclined to judge the competency of the director based on the phrase "he didn't have any suggestions". The father's honest description of personal problems his son has had in the past should also add weight to the complexity of the issue.