[soybean]

Here's a weird question. I recently got a modern Yamaha tenor (62II) after playing a vintage Mk VI for many years. While I love the keywork and intonation on the Yamaha, the play position and angle of the mouthpiece on the Yamaha is really bugging me. Comparing the necks on both horns, it's obvious the Yamaha has more curve and a higher arch. It's just more comfortable to play at the angle the Selmer puts my mouthpiece at. Are there any modern horns with neck curve and play position like a 60s Selmer? Thanks for any help

 

[wersax]

Selmer Reference 54.

 

[soybean]

Selmer Reference 54.

Thanks Wersax, i was wondering about the Ref 54. What about the Ref 34 and other Selmers like Series III?

(The Addjust Balancer by Codera might help this problem. The downside is it might put my right hand too low.)

 

[soybean]

I found this on the Selmer website about different neck angles:

• Series II bore - angled for seated playing
• Series III bore - Mark VI angle
• Reference 54 bore - angled for standing playing
• Reference 36 bore - angled for standing playing

Am i correct in assuming a 1962 Mk IV is angled for standing? If so, maybe the Series III would be most similar. Does anyone know the difference of the angle of the Ref 34, 56 and III? (I've been searching for a while here and can't find the info.) Any help is appreciated.

 

[bfoster64]

I think you will find the Ref horns and the Series III to have a similar angle for standing playing, i.e., the tip of the neck is angled up a little. The Series III neck has a higher arch, however. I believe the Ref necks look more like the Mark VI necks in their overall dimensions.

 

[Al Stevens]

My Ref 54 neck and '56 Mark VI neck have the same angle.

 

[heath]

Actually the ref 36 and 54 both have lower arch necks. The series III has a mid height arch, but the end of the neck turns up more towards the end on the III and as a result it's not as comfy as the Ref necks. I have a Ref 36 and 54 and a series III neck. The Barone is a hair lower in arch then the III neck. The ponzol is a very high arch neck.

The truth is the series III arch is higher than VI. The refs on a whole are a hair lower arch than most VI's, but the Ref offers the closet match for the VI and not what Selmer has printed about the III being close. Now some of the later VI's might come close to the III, I don't know.

Here are some pictures of my III and ref 36 neck. The 36 is on the right and the III is on the left it has red dental floss wrapped around the cork. You can see from these pictures that the neck with the detal floss is higher.http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/513693/GKPLF-100_0547.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/513693/LDPZY-100_0546.JPG

Here's a picture of the Ref 36 and Ref 54 necks side by side. You can't tell a difference in angles.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/513693/SLZML-100_0556.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/513693/HNLEH-100_0555.JPG

My Ref 36 and 54 side by side.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/513693/JEWXY-100_0517.JPG

 

[soybean]

Heath, that is so helpful. Thank you for taking the time to put that all together. Looks like a Reference horn may be the next purchase.

For you sax experts, are there any other tenors with neck shaped like the Refs? It's hard to find all the brands to try out.

 

[heath]

The Rampones have what may be the lowest arched necks of all the modern horns. Sold at SaxForte. A unique horn, has some reported intonation issues.

Heres the Rampone's neck from the side. It's the R1 Jazz tenor.
http://www.saxforte.com/saxophones/Bb_Tenor/Bb_Tenor_Rampone/R1_Jazz_Tenor_Silver/2008JAG9a.jpg

The R1 in gold:
http://www.saxforte.com/saxophones/Bb_Tenor/Bb_Tenor_Rampone/R1_Jazz_Tenor_Gold/R1JT1AuAu.jpg

Also lower arch necks tend to be a little less free blowing in the upper end of the horn, they have a built in resistance that allows you to get a darker and fuller tone with more warmth imo.

 

[Hotspur]

I remember when I tried 2 YTS-475's that one had a slightly more curved neck and another had a curve neck which I couldnt see over the neck. I would think alot of horns now a day have a neck like the one your asking for so just check a few out.

 

[wersax]

Actually the ref 36 and 54 both have lower arch necks. The series III has a mid height arch, but the end of the neck turns up more towards the end on the III and as a result it's not as comfy as the Ref necks. I have a Ref 36 and 54 and a series III neck. The Barone is a hair lower in arch then the III neck. The ponzol is a very high arch neck.

The truth is the series III arch is higher than VI. The refs on a whole are a hair lower arch than most VI's, but the Ref offers the closet match for the VI and not what Selmer has printed about the III being close. Now some of the later VI's might come close to the III, I don't know.

Here are some pictures of my III and ref 36 neck. The 36 is on the right and the III is on the left it has red dental floss wrapped around the cork. You can see from these pictures that the neck with the detal floss is higher.http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/513693/GKPLF-100_0547.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/513693/LDPZY-100_0546.JPG

Here's a picture of the Ref 36 and Ref 54 necks side by side. You can't tell a difference in angles.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/513693/SLZML-100_0556.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/513693/HNLEH-100_0555.JPG

My Ref 36 and 54 side by side.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/513693/JEWXY-100_0517.JPG

Great looking horns Heath!
I'm going to try a Ref 54 neck on my '55 MK VI one of these days.......

 

[soybean]

Anybody (Heath?) know about the Yanagisawa neck shape?

 

[renaissance_man]

I can't speak for Yanagisawa, but I will cast my vote for P. Mauriat (Super Jazz VI). The neck angle is noticeably lower than Yamaha and Selmer's Series II and Serie III. Compared to a Mark VI, it proved to be very VI-like indeed.

 

[heath]

I don't know anything about the yani tenor necks or P. Mauriat. I've read from a few others that they thought the P.Mauriat necks work with their VI.

In one of my neck posts I came to the conclusion that most of the time an original neck is the best fit for the horn. Neck swapping can work, but it seems for every thing gained you might lose something. Of course everyone is different and they all have different needs.http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=67155

I'll agree with the theme of this topic that lower arch necks do make the horn more comfortable to play, providing the ergonomics on the rest of the horn are compatiable with your body and hands. A lower arch neck causes the horn to angle more away from your body and this makes the horn hang as opposed to having to use your left hand thumb to push the horn away. The mouthpiece also seem to approach your mouth straight on which is nice because I feel it's easier to control the horns altissimo when the mouthpiece is straight as opposed to angled like a clarinet only less so.

 

[soybean]

In one of my neck posts I came to the conclusion that most of the time an original neck is the best fit for the horn. Neck swapping can work, but it seems for every thing gained you might lose something.

I read your other post and it really makes sense. After all, the manufacturer designed the neck to work with the body to produce the best tone, and more importantly, to produce the best intonation. This is especially true for modern horns which are often computer designed for good intonation.

I'll agree with the theme of this topic that lower arch necks do make the horn more comfortable to play…

Amen! I don't know why more manufacturers don't understand this, unless it has something to do with making beginners more comfortable or related to sitting down.

I feel it's easier to control the horns altissimo when the mouthpiece is straight as opposed to angled like a clarinet only less so.

The harmonics certainly pop easier for me when the mouthpiece is straight. On the Yamaha, i find myself pulling the neck up when playing altissimo.

 

[soybean]

I will cast my vote for P. Mauriat Super Jazz VI. The neck angle is noticeably lower than Yamaha and Selmer's Series II and Serie III. Compared to a Mark VI, it proved to be very VI-like indeed.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[rogcwilliams]

Here's a weird question. I recently got a modern Yamaha tenor (62II) after playing a vintage Mk VI for many years. While I love the keywork and intonation on the Yamaha, the play position and angle of the mouthpiece on the Yamaha is really bugging me. Comparing the necks on both horns, it's obvious the Yamaha has more curve and a higher arch. It's just more comfortable to play at the angle the Selmer puts my mouthpiece at. Are there any modern horns with neck curve and play position like a 60s Selmer? Thanks for any help

cani suggest you try one of these sax's before you part with your cash
www.signaturecustom.co.uk

 

[OOlufoks]

Anybody (Heath?) know about the Yanagisawa neck shape?

The T991 neck has a much higher arc than the 36. I use a 36 neck on my T991 horn (feels more comfortable, and sounds warmer to me).
I don't have a PM SJ neck, but the stock neck I have is also of lower arc.

 

[LampLight]

Heath, that is so helpful. Thank you for taking the time to put that all together.

+1

 

[soybean]

The T991 neck has a much higher arc than the 36. I use a 36 neck on my T991 horn (feels more comfortable, and sounds warmer to me).
I don't have a PM SJ neck, but the stock neck I have is also of lower arc.

I got a chance to play a brand new T-991 yesterday at Baxter Northrup. (Fantastic horn by the way.) The neck has about the same arch as my Yamaha 62II. When you use the 36 neck, do you notice any change in intonation?