Sax on the Web Forum banner

Tenor identification

4K views 33 replies 8 participants last post by  SaxTMan 
#1 ·
Hi,

Joe usually plays a MK VI, but here he is playing a modern horn, i think.

In this great clip, what horn is he playing?

thanks



 
#3 ·
I think so. I believe he played one. Sonny Stitt, Stanley Turrentine, Johnny Griffin played either a Super Action or a Serie II, some played both. Billy Harper plays a Serie II today.

Look at all the mythology around first the Mark VI's and now Balanced and Super Balanced Actions. Especially by young guys.

While the older guys believe in modernity. Ironic.

It's amazing, these guys could have any horn they want but they believed in evolution. Do you?

There are great horns and so so horns in every model.

Don't get hung up on the hype.

There are some great modern horns being made now in many brands.
 
#11 ·
Hi Mike. We're not arguing we're having a discussion. Ok let's leave Joe out of it.

In the other thread I asked you why the other guys I named like Stanley Turrentine, Sonny Stitt, Johnny Griffin played modern Selmers. Billy Harper plays a Serie II.

You conveniently didn't address the question and focused on the one guy who went back to a horn he had known for years.

Again this is not an argument just explain to me why the players I named chose modern horns.

If you know like you did about Joe Henderson then I would like to know also.
 
#15 ·
Ok I went back and looked at post 3.

You cherry picked one guy I named and completely ignored all the others. Why?

I stand by what I said about the other players I named who opted for modern horns. Looking silly or not.

I'm sorry if I committed sacrilege by not worshiping Mark VI's.

As I said before I A/B ed 2 Mark VI's and another Serie II before I decided on the horn I have because it was the best horn of the four.

Now if you believe all Mark VI's are better than all modern Selmers then you are correct when you say there is no need for further discussion.

I tried a Reference 36, a new Yamaha 62 II later and still liked the Serie II better.

Now after I bought the new Serie II I did play a nice Reference 36 and a nice Yamaha 62 II that a salesman asked me to check out. I liked those as much as I like the one I have. I've since played some great 82 Z's also.

I've been to the NAMM show where you can try a lot of horns so I have tried many many horns and the horn I have is the best that I have ever played.

Ultimately you have to judge the horn in your hand, not an era.
 
#28 ·
This is the last time from me.

Ok I went back and looked at post 3.

You cherry picked one guy I named and completely ignored all the others. Why?
I answered that question in post 13 - see my penultimate comment.

I stand by what I said about the other players I named who opted for modern horns. Looking silly or not.

I'm sorry if I committed sacrilege by not worshiping Mark VI's.
Are you suggesting that I worship MKVI's? Do you know what horns I use? Can you see my Avatar? I simply pointed out the facts regarding Joe Henderson who was the subject of discussion.

As I said before I A/B ed 2 Mark VI's and another Serie II before I decided on the horn I have because it was the best horn of the four.
Good for you!

Now if you believe all Mark VI's are better than all modern Selmers then you are correct when you say there is no need for further discussion.
Did anybody say that, or is that what you imagine people think?

I tried a Reference 36, a new Yamaha 62 II later and still liked the Serie II better.

Now after I bought the new Serie II I did play a nice Reference 36 and a nice Yamaha 62 II that a salesman asked me to check out. I liked those as much as I like the one I have. I've since played some great 82 Z's also.

I've been to the NAMM show where you can try a lot of horns so I have tried many many horns and the horn I have is the best that I have ever played.
Again, good for you.

Ultimately you have to judge the horn in your hand, not an era.
Exactly, just as Joe Henderson did when he went back to a MKVI. (did you read post 19?)
 
#18 ·
yeah, the only horn i said "howawoo" was a serie II a very old and used one. But i've never had again the opportunity to play test my mkvi, that serie II and any reference at same time and compare. That make me sad...
 
#19 ·
Ok, here it is...let's get is history that keep on the discussion, in a good way.

Mel: At this point in our conversation we got into a discussion about vintage Selmer saxophones, sparked by Joe's recent purchases of a 56,000 series Mark VI This was necessitated by the loss, by theft, of one of his saxophones which was later returned by one of his students. Also, the ultimate destruction, by fire in an automobile accident, of his original 54,000 series.

Joe: A guy called me from Dallas who knew I would be coming through with the George Gruntz big band. I called him back and he said he had two Selmers to show me. When I got there he had them laid out in the dressing room. I had no idea that this was the vintage horn I'd been looking for. When I picked one up and played it, I couldn't believe how well it played. When my previous horn was destroyed, after twenty-six years, I thought it could never be replaced.

Mel: It's such a great story how that horn came back to you through Hafez Modir, who we were both teaching at that time. I'll never forget him coming into his lesson and telling me about it.

Joe: Hafez was totally innocent. He simply came over for a lesson. About half an hour into the lesson he asked me to try his horn and check his low B. Usually I play piano and assign lines, a more "here and now approach." I really didn't want to do what he was asking, so I tried to steer him away from that by giving him more demanding material. But, he had the right kind of persistence. So, after hanging on the ropes about another half an hour I said, 'look man, give me the horn.' I went upstairs and got my mouthpiece and soaked up my reed, and started to play this horn. There were some thing that only I knew about that identified the horn. There was a screw right next to the octave key that would work its way out from time to time and would jab me in the finger. I had it filled down. As I was playing, these things began to come through. I was sitting there talking to myself and thinking, 'man, this is my horn!' I didn't want to give the student the impression that I had flipped out. But, after about fifteen more minutes he wanted it to be my horn. He called it a case of "the son coming back to the father." I exchanged another Selmer with him for my original horn. Apparently it had been purchased a year and a half earlier by a young lady in New York, and I had neglected to keep track of the serial number. If I had known approximately what the number was I could have gotten to a similar horn sooner. Someone once asked me whether or not I felt there was something "magical" about Selmers. I had to say there certainly was something magical about this particular vintage, but I feel their more recent horns have lost that quality. After my original horn was stolen I needed a new one. I was speaking with Selmer's engineers and discussing what I felt were problems with the Mark VII, which was the horn that no one knew I was playing.
 
#25 ·
Equake, if I remember correctly, Joe was so distraught that he almost quit playing when his VI was stolen. He called dealers and repairmen all around the country to see if they could find him a similar VI. I'm old friends with the person mentioned in the interview that gave him the two horns to try.

Sonny Stitt played VII's after his VI's got stolen in the late 70's. They were given to him by Selmer. He even used the stock C* mouthpieces that came with them for a while and he sounded fantastic. He eventually got more VI's.

Why are you such a VI naysayer? Do they not work for you? That's OK, but keep in mind that many of the best players in the world used them long before there ever was any hype. Any pro worth their salt is going to use what works best for them, period, whether it's the "latest and greatest" or an old, rusty tin can. But, more pros still prefer vintage Selmers over any other horn.

In fact, what I see is that "Modernity" is the true hype, selling the fantasy that anything newer is as good or better. IMHO, modern mass production still can't duplicate the sound or the craftsmanship that went into the earlier horns. I see virtually every new horn advertised as "Plays like a VI" or "As good as an SBA or 10M".

To be fair, there are some great modern horns being made. In fact, for some players, many of the modern horns will work better for them than a VI will. Still, there is a reason that VI's are selling for ridiculous prices, and it's not that sax players just have lots of bread to throw around.
 
#26 ·
Hey there Am I Too Loud.

Not bashing VI's at all. Just tired of the " all VI's are great " mentality.

Was just saying that a player like Bill Harper plays a Serie II.

He can surely get a VI if he wants one. Just saying.

Every time I bring up a modern Selmer it's like heresy. I just don't get it.
 
#29 ·
Again, we are forgetting that some players only play some horns because some brand is "paying" them to represent a new horn. For instance, joe lovano and the cannonbal brand. But the true is, when recording, behind the cameras, he plays is super balanced! ahaha

that is not good, but!..e sounds great on a cannonbal.
 
#33 ·
A lot of guys will play what they can get their hands on at the time and then pick from that. I don't know why Joe wasn't playing his VI here. Maybe it needed to be retired, maybe it was in bad repair that night and he was playing a backup. I knew a guy who played a VI until it was virtually unplayable and finally decided to just put the thing in the closet. Rather than go on an epic hunt for another vintage horn he just went around town looking for one that worked for him. Wound up being a Ref 54 I think. That's the one reason I'd never buy a VI unless I fell face first into it, you don't know what you're getting online as far as sound goes, and you're probably overpaying unless you stumble on a gem or a good deal.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top