Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,140 Posts
is this a S80?
I think so. I believe he played one. Sonny Stitt, Stanley Turrentine, Johnny Griffin played either a Super Action or a Serie II, some played both. Billy Harper plays a Serie II today.

Look at all the mythology around first the Mark VI's and now Balanced and Super Balanced Actions. Especially by young guys.

While the older guys believe in modernity. Ironic.

It's amazing, these guys could have any horn they want but they believed in evolution. Do you?

There are great horns and so so horns in every model.

Don't get hung up on the hype.

There are some great modern horns being made now in many brands.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
2,294 Posts
I think so. I believe he played one. Sonny Stitt, Stanley Turrentine, Johnny Griffin played either a Super Action or a Serie II, some played both. Billy Harper plays a Serie II today.

Look at all the mythology around first the Mark VI's and now Balanced and Super Balanced Actions. Especially by young guys.

While the older guys believe in modernity. Ironic.

It's amazing, these guys could have any horn they want but they believed in evolution. Do you?

There are great horns and so so horns in every model.

Don't get hung up on the hype.

There are some great modern horns being made now in many brands.
Yes, but what you obviously don't know, is that Joe used a SA80 for a while when his MKVI was stolen. When it turned up he went straight back to it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,008 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Yes, but what you obviously don't know, is that Joe used a SA80 for a while when his MKVI was stolen. When it turned up he went straight back to it.
yes i found a article about it it, later he also found is MKVI who was stolen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,008 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I think so. I believe he played one. Sonny Stitt, Stanley Turrentine, Johnny Griffin played either a Super Action or a Serie II, some played both. Billy Harper plays a Serie II today.

Look at all the mythology around first the Mark VI's and now Balanced and Super Balanced Actions. Especially by young guys.

While the older guys believe in modernity. Ironic.

It's amazing, these guys could have any horn they want but they believed in evolution. Do you?

There are great horns and so so horns in every model.

Don't get hung up on the hype.

There are some great modern horns being made now in many brands.
No i'm not concerned with brands, it was just a question to see how he sounds in different horns. I like is MKVI better, but it think he would sound great in other modern horn to, but if it was a little darker or less bright.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,140 Posts
Yes, but what you obviously don't know, is that Joe used a SA80 for a while when his MKVI was stolen. When it turned up he went straight back to it.
Of course he wanted his original horn back. He knew that horn. It would have been the same if it were a King or whatever.
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,014 Posts
It's amazing, these guys could have any horn they want but they believed in evolution. Do you?.
Yes, I know evolution to be a scientifically proven fact (not a matter of 'believing'), but in the case of saxophones, there has been very little evolution since the '30s. A few minor improvements on keywork when the VI came out, but that's about the extent of it. Some players like a new horn, others prefer a vintage model. A good player will sound good on either.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
2,294 Posts
Of course he wanted his original horn back. He knew that horn. It would have been the same if it were a King or whatever.
Or maybe, perhaps, just possibly he thought the MKVI was better? No, silly me, it's only young guys who believe the hype who think that MKVI's are better, the old guys Like Joe believed in modernity and evolution. Come on equake, you're in danger of looking rather silly.

I'm not going to get into any more discussions, let alone arguments with you. You're entitled to your opinion as is everyone else, but perhaps you should check the facts before making such assertions as you made in post 3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,140 Posts
Hi Mike. We're not arguing we're having a discussion. Ok let's leave Joe out of it.

In the other thread I asked you why the other guys I named like Stanley Turrentine, Sonny Stitt, Johnny Griffin played modern Selmers. Billy Harper plays a Serie II.

You conveniently didn't address the question and focused on the one guy who went back to a horn he had known for years.

Again this is not an argument just explain to me why the players I named chose modern horns.

If you know like you did about Joe Henderson then I would like to know also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,212 Posts
Hi Mike. We're not arguing we're having a discussion. Ok let's leave Joe out of it.

In the other thread I asked you why the other guys I named like Stanley Turrentine, Sonny Stitt, Johnny Griffin played modern Selmers. Billy Harper plays a Serie II.

You conveniently didn't address the question and focused on the one guy who went back to a horn he had known for years.

Again this is not an argument just explain to me why the players I named chose modern horns.

If you know like you did about Joe Henderson then I would like to know also.
You may as well ask "why did all those pros play mark VIs?" It's a silly question. If you're judging a horn by how many pros play it, the VI would likely win. Why are you so insistent on an explanation for why certain players play Serie IIs? what is your point?
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
2,294 Posts
Hi Mike. We're not arguing we're having a discussion.
Good.

Ok let's leave Joe out of it.
This thread is about Joe Henderson.

In the other thread
Do you mean this thread?

I asked you why the other guys I named like Stanley Turrentine, Sonny Stitt, Johnny Griffin played modern Selmers. Billy Harper plays a Serie II.
Did you? Where?

You conveniently didn't address the question and focused on the one guy who went back to a horn he had known for years.
See above (which question?).

Again this is not an argument just explain to me why the players I named chose modern horns.
I don't know all the facts, which means I usually don't make any comments as I like to post accurate information (or at least informed opinions), but I don't think they all switched permanently to SA80's. I think Turrentine at least played one for a while and then went back to his VI

If you know like you did about Joe Henderson then I would like to know also.
You do now!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,008 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Of course he wanted his original horn back. He knew that horn. It would have been the same if it were a King or whatever.
but in the middle he played other MKVi that was not he's original.. so you are kinda right and kinda wrong...lol

So i found a posto with joe himself saying he "lost" is mkvi. Then he played a S80 and a Mkvi, and also a MKvii i think (he didn't like this one). But he has found is original mkvi 2 years late or so. I know that he also has played a mkvi that didn't survived a car accident (no, the horn was not driving :mrgreen:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,140 Posts
Ok I went back and looked at post 3.

You cherry picked one guy I named and completely ignored all the others. Why?

I stand by what I said about the other players I named who opted for modern horns. Looking silly or not.

I'm sorry if I committed sacrilege by not worshiping Mark VI's.

As I said before I A/B ed 2 Mark VI's and another Serie II before I decided on the horn I have because it was the best horn of the four.

Now if you believe all Mark VI's are better than all modern Selmers then you are correct when you say there is no need for further discussion.

I tried a Reference 36, a new Yamaha 62 II later and still liked the Serie II better.

Now after I bought the new Serie II I did play a nice Reference 36 and a nice Yamaha 62 II that a salesman asked me to check out. I liked those as much as I like the one I have. I've since played some great 82 Z's also.

I've been to the NAMM show where you can try a lot of horns so I have tried many many horns and the horn I have is the best that I have ever played.

Ultimately you have to judge the horn in your hand, not an era.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,008 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Actually proves my point.

He didn't want just any Mark VI. Just the one he knew.
i think it proves your point and also don't. Because he really wanted is original one. But in the between he also played another MKvi....so it should mean something. If he had a lot of modern horns available why came back to a mkvi?..

Actually i don't care to much about that. I play a mkvi and i'm gona buy a reference, so i don't have any problem with modern or vintage horns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,008 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
yeah, the only horn i said "howawoo" was a serie II a very old and used one. But i've never had again the opportunity to play test my mkvi, that serie II and any reference at same time and compare. That make me sad...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,008 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Ok, here it is...let's get is history that keep on the discussion, in a good way.

Mel: At this point in our conversation we got into a discussion about vintage Selmer saxophones, sparked by Joe's recent purchases of a 56,000 series Mark VI This was necessitated by the loss, by theft, of one of his saxophones which was later returned by one of his students. Also, the ultimate destruction, by fire in an automobile accident, of his original 54,000 series.

Joe: A guy called me from Dallas who knew I would be coming through with the George Gruntz big band. I called him back and he said he had two Selmers to show me. When I got there he had them laid out in the dressing room. I had no idea that this was the vintage horn I'd been looking for. When I picked one up and played it, I couldn't believe how well it played. When my previous horn was destroyed, after twenty-six years, I thought it could never be replaced.

Mel: It's such a great story how that horn came back to you through Hafez Modir, who we were both teaching at that time. I'll never forget him coming into his lesson and telling me about it.

Joe: Hafez was totally innocent. He simply came over for a lesson. About half an hour into the lesson he asked me to try his horn and check his low B. Usually I play piano and assign lines, a more "here and now approach." I really didn't want to do what he was asking, so I tried to steer him away from that by giving him more demanding material. But, he had the right kind of persistence. So, after hanging on the ropes about another half an hour I said, 'look man, give me the horn.' I went upstairs and got my mouthpiece and soaked up my reed, and started to play this horn. There were some thing that only I knew about that identified the horn. There was a screw right next to the octave key that would work its way out from time to time and would jab me in the finger. I had it filled down. As I was playing, these things began to come through. I was sitting there talking to myself and thinking, 'man, this is my horn!' I didn't want to give the student the impression that I had flipped out. But, after about fifteen more minutes he wanted it to be my horn. He called it a case of "the son coming back to the father." I exchanged another Selmer with him for my original horn. Apparently it had been purchased a year and a half earlier by a young lady in New York, and I had neglected to keep track of the serial number. If I had known approximately what the number was I could have gotten to a similar horn sooner. Someone once asked me whether or not I felt there was something "magical" about Selmers. I had to say there certainly was something magical about this particular vintage, but I feel their more recent horns have lost that quality. After my original horn was stolen I needed a new one. I was speaking with Selmer's engineers and discussing what I felt were problems with the Mark VII, which was the horn that no one knew I was playing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,140 Posts
You may as well ask "why did all those pros play mark VIs?" It's a silly question. If you're judging a horn by how many pros play it, the VI would likely win. Why are you so insistent on an explanation for why certain players play Serie IIs? what is your point?
My point is a lot of famous young guys want vintage Selmers and a lot of famous older players choose modern ones.

Just making an observation. Read into what you will.

And the inference and tone I'm getting from this discussion is all Mark VI's are better than all modern Selmers.

And as I said in another post if you believe that then there's no need for further discussion.

The only reason I seemed to be fixated on Serie II's is because they were the latest Selmer offering at the time of the guys I named.

I believe Benny Golson plays a Reference 36 by the way.

Hey again I didn't mean to blaspheme and have the audacity to compare a modern Selmer with a Mark VI.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top