Sax on the Web Forum banner
1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
hello everyone, thanks for accepting me in this group. I always dreamed of a conn 10m or a mark vi, but since I discovered the old Bueschers, I forgot about that, not only are the prices more reasonable, but I also like their sound more. I currently have a 1920 true tone tenor, which I love, but I am thinking of acquiring another one, and I am undecided between a Big B or a 400, I have a slight preference towards the 400, but what are your recommendations, preference and experiences, that you can advise. thank you all in advance for your advice.hello everyone, thanks for accepting me in this group. I always dreamed of a conn 10m or a mark vi, but since I discovered the old Bueschers, I forgot about that, not only are the prices more reasonable, but I also like their sound more. I currently have a 1920 true tone tenor, which I love, but I am thinking of acquiring another one, and I am undecided between a Big B or a 400, I have a slight preference towards the 400, but what are your recommendations, preference and experiences, that you can advise. thank you all in advance for your advice.
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,681 Posts
You won't go wrong with either the "Big B" Aristocrats (3 models-see below) or the 400 TH&C. One thing to keep in mind is there are 3 different Aristocrat models with the Big B engraving. From earliest to latest, the '127', '155', and '156' Aristocrats. The '127' is nearly identical to the earlier 'series one' with art deco engraving and the '156' with Big B engraving is identical to the '156' with script engraving which followed the Big B.

I have a 'series one' Aristocrat and a '156' with script engraving. Both are great horns. The series one has a more focused, compact sound and the '156' has a more spread 'open' sound. I haven't played a TH&C but I suspect it is closer to the 156 than to the series one (or '127' Big B). Don't know how helpful this is, but I mainly wanted to point out the Big B isn't a specific model; that engraving was used on 3 Aristocrat models and they do differ, aside from all being really great horns.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
824 Posts
I vote for the 156, having played both, and now owning a 156 script engraving (which is exactly like the 156 Big B but will save you several hundred dollars).

There are several 400 models over the years, too, and not all of them are as good as the Top Hat & Cane model. The Top Hat & Cane will be much more expensive than a 156 Big B, and hugely much more expensive than a 156 script!
Save youself the expense and aggravation of trying to find the "right" model 400, and get the 156 script model. I sold my Conn 10M when I found a fine 156 script, and I never looked back.

This man's opinion, and I hope it helps.
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,681 Posts
I vote for the 156, having played both, and now owning a 156 script engraving (which is exactly like the 156 Big B but will save you several hundred dollars).
I wouldn't disagree with this. I have a silver-plated 156 script engraved Aristo tenor and when I first got it, the VI went into the closet for a couple of years. I've since returned to the VI, but still play the 156 on occasion when I want to get that sound. It has a HUGE sound. But the series one Aristo has a special something also. I've always had trouble deciding which of those Bueschers I prefer, but I do lean toward the 156. Can't really compare it to a TH&C since I haven't played one, but I've heard they have some similarities and I doubt the TH&C would be worth the extra $$ it commands.

One way to ID the 156 vs earlier Aristocrat tenors is the noticeably larger bell flare and a sort of outward 'kink' to the bell. It's not a larger bell overall, just the greater flare at the opening that makes it look larger. It also has '156' stamped below the serial number.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
41,632 Posts
[ADMIN] Sorry you need to post in English per the rules. Please edit this post and re-write it in English. Thanks and welcome to the forum [/ADMIN]
@Maurosaxtenor

Perhaps I can offer a little help here.

If a user uses chrome and this is set to one particular language, EVEN IF the user writes in English it will automatically translate in the language it is set, you need to go into Chrome preferences and change the languages allowing English otherwise you will always post in your language
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,155 Posts
@Maurosaxtenor

Perhaps I can offer a little help here.

If a user uses chrome and this is set to one particular language, EVEN IF the user writes in English it will automatically translate in the language it is set, you need to go into Chrome preferences and change the languages allowing English otherwise you will always post in your language
Witchcraft and sorcery!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
[QUOTE = "Sax Magic, publicación: 4323566, miembro: 21381"]
Voto por el 156, habiendo jugado a ambos, y ahora tengo un grabado de 156 script (que es exactamente como el 156 Big B pero te ahorrará varios cientos de dólares).

También hay varios modelos 400 a lo largo de los años, y no todos son tan buenos como el modelo Top Hat & Cane. El Top Hat & Cane será mucho más caro que un 156 Big B, ¡y mucho más caro que un script 156!
Ahórrese el gasto y la molestia de tratar de encontrar el modelo 400 "correcto" y obtener el modelo de script 156. Vendí mi Conn 10M cuando encontré un buen script 156 y nunca miré hacia atrás.

La opinión de este hombre, y espero que ayude.
[/CITA]
Hola gracias por tu comentario. Hay alguna diferencia entre el 156big b y el script 156? Estamos hablando en ambos casos de Buescher? Disculpa mi ignorancia y gracias de nuevo, está información es muy útil para mí
[ADMIN] Sorry you need to post in English per the rules. Please edit this post and re-write it in English. Thanks and welcome to the forum [/ADMIN]
I'm sorry, I publish it in English and the browser changes it for me
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
hello everyone, thanks for your answers. Yesterday I was watching many audios and videos about these saxophones, and I don't know if what I will say is very crazy, but the aristocrats of series 1 I liked their sound much more
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
Joined
·
19,000 Posts
As noted, all are good. I will even go so far as to say a Buescher 400, post-THC, "series 2" as Saxpics used to call them, are also very good. The 400 series 2 is not quite the same body as the THC's, and it isn't an Aristocrat body either...

A THC as noted, is going to be very expensive....the Big B 'Crats next expensive...then the pre- and post- Big-B 'crats next...and finally the series 2 400's.

The 400's have a slightly more spread tone, more harmonics going on, while IMHO the 'Crats are a bit more focused. All sound and play great, however.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
[ADMIN] Sorry you need to post in English per the rules. Please edit this post and re-write it in English. Thanks and welcome to the forum [/ADMIN]
hello everyone, thanks for accepting me in this group. I always dreamed of a conn 10m or a mark vi, but since I discovered the old Bueschers, I forgot about that, not only are the prices more reasonable, but I also like their sound more. I currently have a 1920 true tone tenor, which I love, but I am thinking of acquiring another one, and I am undecided between a Big B or a 400, I have a slight preference towards the 400, but what are your recommendations, preference and experiences, that you can advise. thank you all in advance for your advice.
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,681 Posts
A THC as noted, is going to be very expensive....the Big B 'Crats next expensive...then the pre- and post- Big-B 'crats next...
True. Which is why I pointed out that the only difference between the Big B 156 and script 156 is the engraving, so if you are buying the Big B 156 for more money than the script 156, the extra cost is going only for the engraving.

And from what I've been told, the only difference between the art deco-engraved series one and earliest Big B is the engraving and a couple of cosmetic things like the key guards. The 'middle' Big B 155 is a third model that may be a little different from the other two.

Maybe it goes without saying, but the playing condition of the horn is of utmost importance and has to be figured in on the price when shopping for any used horn.

After this thread started I picked up my 156 Aristo tenor this morning and practiced on it for a couple of hours. It was much fun to play that I had trouble putting it down and stopping for lunch! This horn responds so easily and has a big open sound that almost sounds like there are effects built into it. The VI has its own thing, but doesn't sound quite as 'lively'.

And based on what Jaye says about the 400s having a more spread tone, I'd say the 156 is much closer to a 400 than the earlier series one model, which is definitely more focused.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,900 Posts
I wouldn't over-think it. From the little I've seen, any Buescher from the late 30's to the mid 50's is gonna be an excellent horn, assuming it's in good shape.
I know some folks don't like the TT tenors too much but there are some good ones, too. I keep my TT at my cottage in the mountains so that I only have to take the MPC and a few reeds and I am always tempted to bring it back down. But then, I have the 156 at my house and there is only so much use for the G# trill key :cool:
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,681 Posts
I know some folks don't like the TT tenors too much but there are some good ones, too. I keep my TT at my cottage in the mountains so that I only have to take the MPC and a few reeds and I am always tempted to bring it back down. But then, I have the 156 at my house and there is only so much use for the G# trill key :cool:
lostcircuits, how would you say your TT compares to the 156 (aside from the G# trill key :))? My guess is the TT is more focused like the series one, but I haven't ever played a TT tenor so I'm curious how it compares. Also since Maurosaxtenor now has a TT, it might be useful to let him know the difference between it and a 156.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,900 Posts
lostcircuits, how would you say your TT compares to the 156 (aside from the G# trill key :))? My guess is the TT is more focused like the series one, but I haven't ever played a TT tenor so I'm curious how it compares. Also since Maurosaxtenor now has a TT, it might be useful to let him know the difference between it and a 156.
You are correct, the TT is a lot more focused and has a unique "raw, no compromise, in-your-face" sound. Like some of the vintage 10m tenors, it is picky with the mouthpieces, the neck is a bit too short, so you need a long shank MPC to bring it down from playing sharp without a MPC wobble. The unique TT experience is that if you push it hard, the entire horn starts shaking and vibrating but it's a positive sensation that makes you want to push even harder because that's what the horn wants. And there is no slack on the mechanics - all pads are in perfect condition and it was overhauled/regulated 2 years ago. Overtones are super easy, I accidentally played Let It Be the other day in the "clarion" register until I realized my fingering was not what it was supposed to be. But a lot of the altissimo (and I am really not much of an altissimo player) requires some odd fingering or I (that's me personally) can't get the notes to play when they come easy on e.g. my B&S. But I could not possibly get that tone out of a B&S, same MPC, reed etc.

The156 in comparison is very tame (I know that sounds funny), it is quite a bit lighter (weight) and more controllable. I love both horns but they want to be played loud. The 156 is the work horse, no surprises.

And one more thing, my TT is the Saltshaker edition, probably won't matter but sometimes details make a difference.

I sold my Buescher 400 (1980 ish), which was more like a tin can in comparison to the other two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
lostcircuits, how would you say your TT compares to the 156 (aside from the G# trill key :))? My guess is the TT is more focused like the series one, but I haven't ever played a TT tenor so I'm curious how it compares. Also since Maurosaxtenor now has a TT, it might be useful to let him know the difference between it and a 156.
Hello, what a pleasure to find so many Buescher enthusiasts, maybe I cannot compare the TT with the rest, but I can tell you my appreciation: the TT despite having a somewhat uncomfortable ergonomics, is a very easy sax to play, the emission of the The sound is like silk, it has a somewhat dark sound (not too much), very velvety, the bass is powerful and beautiful, with incredible subtones, treble and over sharp treble, it is almost a cello haha, very enveloping sound, sweet in the mids , the highlight for me is its impressive resonance, you feel the vibration up to your feet haha
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
You are correct, the TT is a lot more focused and has a unique "raw, no compromise, in-your-face" sound. Like some of the vintage 10m tenors, it is picky with the mouthpieces, the neck is a bit too short, so you need a long shank MPC to bring it down from playing sharp without a MPC wobble. The unique TT experience is that if you push it hard, the entire horn starts shaking and vibrating but it's a positive sensation that makes you want to push even harder because that's what the horn wants. And there is no slack on the mechanics - all pads are in perfect condition and it was overhauled/regulated 2 years ago. Overtones are super easy, I accidentally played Let It Be the other day in the "clarion" register until I realized my fingering was not what it was supposed to be. But a lot of the altissimo (and I am really not much of an altissimo player) requires some odd fingering or I (that's me personally) can't get the notes to play when they come easy on e.g. my B&S. But I could not possibly get that tone out of a B&S, same MPC, reed etc.

The156 in comparison is very tame (I know that sounds funny), it is quite a bit lighter (weight) and more controllable. I love both horns but they want to be played loud. The 156 is the work horse, no surprises.

And one more thing, my TT is the Saltshaker edition, probably won't matter but sometimes details make a difference.

I sold my Buescher 400 (1980 ish), which was more like a tin can in comparison to the other two.
the altissimos in the TT are very good, I achieve until the fourth C without much effort
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top