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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I guess I already know the right answer to this but here goes:
This is in Eighth Notes

We are gonna play an Ab7 bop scale start on the third (C with octave key). Go straight down the scale all the way to low Gb then back up. On the way up don't play the Natural 7th Instead play both the b3 and Natural 3rd take this straight up to the b7.

This is the only key I get hung up on (with this pattern) I definitely over use the bis key and almost never run into situation where it is hard for me to play but this one is tough, also playing the side Bb ( on the way up) on this seems just as tough coming off the Ab. Also does anyone use the side c (in this pattern)? Try it Let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Actually after trying this again about 10 times It seems as if the bis is the only way to go on this?
 

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sonnymobleytrane said:
Actually after trying this again about 10 times It seems as if the bis is the only way to go on this?
I could see using either bis or side Bb on this one. I wouldn't use side C, though. You should try them both nice and slow and figure out which one you find more comfortable and practice it nice and slow, then notch up the metronome.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
littlemanbighorn said:
I could see using either bis or side Bb on this one. I wouldn't use side C, though. You should try them both nice and slow and figure out which one you find more comfortable and practice it nice and slow, then notch up the metronome.

Yeah after I typed this it came with no problem but beforehand I kept stumbling guess I was just tired. Again Bis seems to work better
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Nefertiti said:
I don't see how using the bis is the best. It seems to me like the side Bb is the best answer all round. I never use the bis key when a B or C is next to it then you get the flip flop deal that just slows you down. the side Bb is faster in those situations I think.

I know it is technically probably wrong but it works for me. I never (usually) get hung up even going from Bb to B. Maybe cause on My horn (VI) the Bis is really close to the B
 

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You should never use the bis key when shifting from A#(Bb) to B or vice versa. The Ab-Bb(using side Bb), can be tricky at first but it becomes easier with practice and in the end is a superior method. The Larry Teal Daily Studies book has an exercise in the very back that deals specifically with using the Ab-Side Bb shift. I practiced that one daily. I wouldn't dare use bis for F#, B, Ab minor or Eb minor.

Regarding side C, I try to avoid it unless a line ascends to the C and then turns around and comes back down (ie. B C B or Bb C Bb). I don't use side C when practicing scales because I know I'm not going to use it in improvisation except for a few specific situations (trills, turns). For a classical piece, if there's a situation that warrants it, I make the decision to use it and practice it that way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Agent27 said:
You should never use the bis key when shifting from A#(Bb) to B or vice versa. The Ab-Bb(using side Bb), can be tricky at first but it becomes easier with practice and in the end is a superior method. The Larry Teal Daily Studies book has an exercise in the very back that deals specifically with using the Ab-Side Bb shift. I practiced that one daily. I wouldn't dare use bis for F#, B, Ab minor or Eb minor.

Regarding side C, I try to avoid it unless a line ascends to the C and then turns around and comes back down (ie. B C B or Bb C Bb). I don't use side C when practicing scales because I know I'm not going to use it in improvisation except for a few specific situations (trills, turns). For a classical piece, if there's a situation that warrants it, I make the decision to use it and practice it that way.

I agree with side C its very rare that I use this. Also the 1 and1 Bb I never use, nor do I use the alternative F# except in a trilling situation. I have played other horns where the Bis is a problem sometimes because there is a slight space between the B and the Bis, but on my horn its really close. When I teach I teach the Students as you described above and after some 20 years of playing for me the Bis just works.

I can remember the first time I even started to really use the Bis was in High School learning the Creston sonata on alto. There was a section where you had to play the bis, side Bb and 1 and 1 (at least that is the way my private instructor taught it to me) Also in the Bird transcription of KC Blues (alto) one of the double time figures requires both Bis and Side Bb.

Again I'm not exclusive to the Bis its just I know I tend to over use it , but it does work for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Again I'm not even advocating this. I'm not suggesting that over 100 years of guys playing the sax and coming up with technical rules and they are wrong and I am right.
 

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sonnymobleytrane said:
Again I'm not even advocating this. I'm not suggesting that over 100 years of guys playing the sax and coming up with technical rules and they are wrong and I am right.
Why not? I do it all the time.
 

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What's about RULES ?
So not only are we controlled by RULES during every minute of our working day..... we have to abide by RULES whilst enjoying the pleasure of playing our saxes too ?
 
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