Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,313 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I knew a lot of the modern engraving coming from the Taiwanese factories was inspired by work I have done, but this takes the cake. This one is a direct copy! Check it out: http://cgi.ebay.com/Ipanema-Tenor-T...ryZ16232QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The original:



The copy:



The original was an alto and the copy is a tenor, so the engraver just "cut and pasted" various designs in different places.

I can't decide if I am flattered or appauled, especially since the execution on the copy is pretty rough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,206 Posts
If it were me I'd be flattered the first few times but after that I'd start asking for royalties.. maybe even approach the companies about doing designs for them to mass produce.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,709 Posts
I think the estate of EA Hagen might sue them for more (they're coming out with a "Harlem Nocturne" model).

I'd recommend talking with a lawyer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,026 Posts
Pete said:
I think the estate of EA Hagen might sue them for more (they're coming out with a "Harlem Nocturne" model).

I'd recommend talking with a lawyer.
They'll just misspell it like "Solist" or put Haarlem on it. If it is like other Chinese horns you will feel like you have metal shavings on your hands after you touch it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
244 Posts
Jason said:
. . . execution on the copy is pretty rough
Jason, I honor your ability, your extraordinary attention to detail and your dedication to your craft.

You're so good that you see things most of us don't. The copy looks fine to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
Sam said:
Jason, I honor your ability, your extraordinary attention to detail and your dedication to your craft.

You're so good that you see things most of us don't. The copy looks fine to me.
The only thing that I noticed was the detail in the flowers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
885 Posts
Jason, you do great work, without question.
An artist.
But that Ipanema is a beautiful looking sax.
What if it plays as nice as it looks?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,517 Posts
Hey Jason,
I would probably still pick your engravings over these mass produced engravings. Though I can understand why your mad. Best of luck.
~Carbs
 

·
Distinguished SOTW member/, Official SOTW Sister
Joined
·
19,202 Posts
Is there any way to copywrite your designs?

FWIW, Yours is by far the better work.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
38,832 Posts
I am not an engraver or a lawyer . I do see the similarities ( and also more than a few differences) and perhaps you could even have a legal case there but I doubt of its possibilities and frankly believe that although your own work is of absolutely superlative quality, in decorating anything and applying a decorative technique to any form of craft many if or perhaps all craftsmen borrow some things from someone, past or present , perhaps you did some occasional borrowing yourself? ;)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,313 Posts
Sorry, but I don't see it. The design is similar, but it is not a direct copy. Far from it. Many differences in detail and format. Are you saying that they copied your concept?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
Al Stevens said:
Sorry, but I don't see it. The design is similar, but it is not a direct copy. Far from it. Many differences in detail and format. Are you saying that they copied your concept?
All of the elements are the same, but without as much detail, from my perspective. That's maybe not a legal infringement, but it's not cool either.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,313 Posts
bandmommy said:
Is there any way to copywrite your designs?
A work is automatically covered by copyright law when it is created. Jason could register the copyright of each new work if he wanted to go to that trouble and expense.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,313 Posts
Ferret said:
All of the elements are the same, but without as much detail, from my perspective.
That's like saying one tune infringes another because they have a lot of the same notes. :) Both engravings have floral arrangements. Stems, leaves and petals. That's about it. My Ref 54 LE has those elements. The similarites in this case are found in the degree of ornamentation. There's no infringement here.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2009
Joined
·
3,204 Posts
unfortunately, there's no infringement here I would say. It's pretty clear where they "got the musterd", or else they have exactly the same flowers in their kitchen as Jason does.

Alas, chinese are pretty good in copying without getting trouble with copyright laws. In fact, so good that one can consider it a form of art.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,313 Posts
Jason has nothing to worry about. Most of us can readily see the difference in quality. His work is better organized and laid out, more pleasing to the eye and more tasteful. It has a balance and beauty that the copy lacks. Just engraving a lot of curlicues on a sax doesn't constitute great art. No one will confuse the copy with his work. No one who has discerning tastes would choose the copy over his work.

If anything, the mere existence of such copies validates Jason's contribution to the art of saxophone engraving.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,313 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I'm not worried at all about the legal aspects, and would certainly never consider suing some company in Taiwan for ripping off my design. Yes, there are similarities, but let's cut to the chase... they totally copied me. This design is absolutely original and is neither influenced by anyone else's work Selmer, Conn or otherwise, and it is certainly not a copy. The work I did on the King alto was an original, one-of-a-kind creation that I have never duplicated even in my own work. The more I reflect on it, the more I am actually happy that of all the engraving in the world they could have copied, they chose one of my pieces. If the King alto would have been a modern tenor, I am sure they would have copied verbatim as opposed to just copying various parts and placing them randomly on the horn. Yes, the Chinese have taken copying to a new artform.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top