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Discussion Starter #1
I'm revisiting an old question of mine (the thread is here - wrong place, I realise now). Instead of reiterating the whole story, let me just say that even though I've researched the issue extensively and from a lot of different angles and using a lot of different and sometimes outright contradictory sources, I'm still not totally sure if my tenor's a T-500, T-800 (my actual, quite educated guess) or even a T-900.

I think the only way to find this out is to look at detailed images of T-500, T-800 and T-900 from '84 to '90, if viable/available (I've heard that either the T-500 or the T-800 had their production stopped earlier (in '84) - that's something I'd like to know for sure also). So please, post links or actual pictures; the bell-to-body brace is a good starting point, but I'm interested in next to anything about the outside of the horn, bell to crook/neck, keywork to single posts and screws.

Thanks in advance!

M.

P.S. Don't get me wrong, but please note that I don't want to discuss it - I want to really *see* it. I've read just about everything available online that I could unearth with different search strategies, I don't want to steal anyone's time by replicating all that.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, trice, but I need: T-500, T-800, T-900. The T-880 is recognisable, and easily so. The others are the problem. If, as ManEast has stated, the T-800 is more closely related to the T-880, this'll be of help nonetheless.

M.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks, ManEast :) Alas (for me), or maybe luckily, I found the post I should have remembered (because I had read it!), and I'm feeling really stupid now after reading it again - because my sax is definitely a T-500, and the information necessary was available on SotW all along; linked by yours truely in the very thread I reopened without need. I'm dumbfounded about my lack of sensibility. Simply put: You were right on all counts.

That said: I too would still love to see a real T-800!

M.
 

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Thanks, ManEast :) Alas (for me), or maybe luckily, I found the post I should have remembered (because I had read it!), and I'm feeling really stupid now after reading it again - because my sax is definitely a T-500, and the information necessary was available on SotW all along; linked by yours truely in the very thread I reopened without need. I'm dumbfounded about my lack of sensibility. Simply put: You were right on all counts.

That said: I too would still love to see a real T-800!

M.
Hi M

I am not surprised by the amount of confusion over this, considering some of the info put into print on this subject. (dates on model runs) This kind of stuff also has a habit of repeating itself... as one tends to read it and then repeat it in print else were, i.e Internet forums ext. Logic also has a bit to do with it too... the 900 with 990, the 901 with 991. So the 800 must be the intermediate to the 880 (no its not ! :~)
Even the term Student sax used in the wrong way can lead players to believe that one particular model (in this case the A and T 500) is somehow inferior to a T6 or T900...when they are not. Yanagisawa needed to Twin its range to compete with the very popular Yamaha YTS/YAS 62 & 32. The 32 being yamaha's Intermediate (not student) model.
The funny thing is the T & A 500 were so competitively price, that they prob did more to put the Yanagisawa name out-there , than any other horn built by them.
The A & T500 evolved from the A & T6 ... if you hold them up together this is very easy to see. ( also T6 ends in 1979 T500 starts late 79/80 :~)
Yanagisawa make 50 of the 600's (this is were the rumours of the Selmer lawsuit kick in.)

By the late 70's. Yangisawa have already started thinking of other great horns borrow from and focus on the King Super 20. That's were you get the short lived A & T 800, swiftly followed by the A & T 880.

The MK6 copy thing was in much of the Yani range inc the A & T500. As a player I have found that some pre 901 & 991 Yani horns suffer with some of the same probs the MK6 has. Some seem to speak very well at the bottom...and some not. (regardless of how well they are set up).
I am a yani fan and love the pride of workmanship built into these Saxophones.

Kind Regards.

ManEast
 

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Discussion Starter #7
ManEast, your last post should be linked in the thread the T-6/T-500 issues was discussed - since it's yours, you decide. As I've said, even though I liked the sound of the T-6 a little better, I'm still a happy owner of a T-500 - it's a great sax, not only well made, but gorgous (near spotless), sturdy(!) and functional - a pleasure to have and play. Whoever put the rumor out there that these saxes aren't good quality has never held one or didn't want to see the truth. As a Yanagisawa fan, I'm still a 6 series aficionado; but the modern saxes are great too.

It'd be a great idea to put a comparison gallery out there that's really systematically done (i.e. from the same angles in the same light, showing the important details). I'm pretty sure that Yanagisawa would help with that (providing key informatoin - they did before). I'll look into making that a project, but I'll definitely need help since the access to different Yanagisawas is limited here in Switzerland.

That said, take a look at this one - don't the detail pictures show ribbed construction (behind the tone holes)? No double key arms, though... The seller's a nice guy (I've met him), but he's not a saxophonist, so he relies on misleading information.

What I'll do ASAP is contact one of my favorite dealers to make him change his advertisement for a T-800 - it's also a T-500, not quite as pretty as mine, but also in very decent condition.

M.
 

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It'd be a great idea to put a comparison gallery out there that's really systematically done (i.e. from the same angles in the same light, showing the important details). I'm pretty sure that Yanagisawa would help with that (providing key informatoin - they did before). I'll look into making that a project, but I'll definitely need help since the access to different Yanagisawas is limited here in Switzerland.

That said, take a look at this one - don't the detail pictures show ribbed construction (behind the tone holes)? No double key arms, though... The seller's a nice guy (I've met him), but he's not a saxophonist, so he relies on misleading information.

What I'll do ASAP is contact one of my favorite dealers to make him change his advertisement for a T-800 - it's also a T-500, not quite as pretty as mine, but also in very decent condition.

M.
Hi M
I very much like the gallery idea. I can help out with that as I know someone that owns a very nice T5. I have already had a word with another SOTW member about some pics of his A4. My 8833 Alto should go in there, but I think the one I have is a one-off...I should wirte to the factory about that.

The horn at www.ricardo looks to be post constrution to me.

I think the 800 will be the hard one to find.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm looking into two things at the moment: 1) The parts of the sax and the order of presentation; this'll be the part that gets the relevant visuals; 2) the software/platform to arrange this since I want the entries (specific instruments) to be directly comparable. I want thumbnails, groups/grouping and item comparison - as flexible as possible, i.e. it'd be ideal to be able to arrange the images in just about any way one desires.

To start off 1), how about this: entire sax (both sides) - 2 images; crook/neck from the side and from above (to get a logo shot) - 2 images; bell engraving - 1 image; serial number - 1 image; bell-to-body brace - 1 image; left hand (with clear view of front F) - 1 image; left pinky table - 1 image; right hand with good shot of all side keys, including shape - probably 2 images; body shot(s) to determine ribbed or single post construction - 1 or 2 images (this is the least defined portion - I don't own ribbed Yanagisawas...). What am I missing?

M.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Doesn't that make it a lesser model?
No. Yanagisawa used posts and stainless springs on all early saxes up to the 6 series and continued to do so on the 500 series (which evolved from the 6 series - which is pretty obvious when they're compared side by side). At some point in time (presumably with the 8** series - but that remains to be seen) they switched to blued steel on all saxes; the 500 and 90* series retained the post-only construction, the 800/880/99* series have ribbed construction and other "advanced" features, but if those are really relevant, especially to tone and playability, is largely a matter of taste and opinion, even if there are known advantages to a ribbed construction. I personally think it's more important that the 8**/99* series show some genuine innovation while the earlier as well as the 9** series are in essence a quite successful attempt to copy the most important characteristics of the Selmer Mk VI...

In my personal experience, the A-991 beats the Selmer SA 80 II in terms of precision and concept (I did a very thorough side-by-side comparison two years ago). But my SA 80 II has more raw power and character than the A-991 I was able to play - things that the A-6 I now favour offers in abundance, and it adds a richness of tone I had never experienced before (mind you, I haven't played thousands of horns...). Now remember that the 6 series served as a base for the 500 series...

My single post B-6 holds regulation magnificently (no regulation has been necessary for over two years now). It also beat the B-901 I owned on all counts except response - but since the B-901 was overwhelmingly quick and the B-6 is still very fast, that's not really an issue. Of course, the B-6 has obviously seen a lot more action, but I don't care for looks as long as the horn's a player. Points for core, power and overall playability all go to the B-6 - which has the same basic construction (single posts) as the B-901, but is still powered by stainless steel springs to date! After the B-6 was overhauled and properly set up, the action wasn't any worse than the B-901's. That's why I sold the latter...

EDIT: Considering your question: Could you post the serial number (or at least everything except the last three digits)? It could be a T-6 or a T-500 - or an even older model. As far as I can see, it doesn't have a high F# so it's less probable that it's a T-500. The pictures don't show if it has ribbed construction - though I can only see posts. The shape of the front F points to T-5/6 too, as well as the fact that it's a less common stencil. I'd also like a shot of the top of the crook. But please consider that all this is far from being an exact science yet :cool:

M.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Need more pics to nail this one.:) But from the pics we aready have I would say a 1975 T6.
I agree - also most probably another nice instance of the month (2) - year (75) - item (222) serial scheme (I wish they had always used just that - at least in the early days).

M.
 

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All those posts on the S6's high F# are so darn high they look easy to knock off. It happened on my tenor's E key.
They copied almost everything on the Mark VI but the "short throw". I'll never forget one member's description of Yanagisawas construction of having the appearance of "farm machinery".
 

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They copied almost everything on the Mark VI but the "short throw". I'll never forget one member's description of Yanagisawas construction of having the appearance of "farm machinery".
Hi Whaler

Yes...I have own up to that comment. :angel4: Its one few things that bug me about Yani horns.
It looks kind of O.K on the Sop and pos the Alto. But then the post's look quite tall on the Tenor....It makes the whole horn very wide.
Maybe we should all go with that Charlie Parker "old farm hand look !"
You know ...with the denim bib and brace.;)
 
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