[johnny b]

Hi there all,
I am a beginner, about 4 weeks. This question may have been answered elsewhere but I could not find it.
As a beginner I have a lot to concentrate on. One less hassle would be not to have to keep preparing and rotating reeds.
Question ? Would you consider using synthetic reeds for the first 3/6/-12 months. Just set and forget.
I will go back to cane reeds once I get the basics sorted out.
Does this make any sense ?
If it does, what would be an appropriate synthetic reed for my present set up?

Ref 36 Tenor.
Selmer 80 C*.
Rico Royal #2.

Thanks for any advice. Johnny B. & Happy New Year to all.

 

[Captain Beeflat]

You really have opened a can of worms with that question.
I would advise the use of a good synthetic for the logical reasons you state.
Others will defend cane with their dying breath.
Members here, in the past, nearly came to blows on this subject....yet, when Pete Thomas "owned up" to using a synthetic, it suddenly went quiet.....strange!
In your position, my first shot would be a Fibracell M/S.

PS.
Where the Hell is F.N.Q?.....Looks to be a pleasant spot.

 

[saxxsymbol]

Bottom line, if you find the right one I think the synthetics make a lot of sense. On tenor I started on Rico Orange box, went to the Rico Royal, which I liked, then on to plasticover for more projection and volume. When I started my own small group and had to double on Alto and Bari a lot I needed something else so I could just pick up a horn and play. I tried several of the plastic reeds, Bari, Fibracane and didn't care for any of them until I tried a numbered system fibracell. Sound was similar to a Plasticover. Funny thing with Fibracells is I could effectiveley use anything from a 1.5 to a 3.5. With the softer reeds much more buzzy. For my set up a fresh 2.5 worked best.

Lately, the fibracells haven't been lasting as long, and they start to sound too edgy, loose volume gradually over time and altissimmo becomes harder to control so I decided to try the Legere Signature cut synthetic. I have only just got them but I found a 2.25 is perfect out of the box for me. The sound was naturally sweeter and I could play softer than with Fibracell but I could still get that edgy sound with just as much volume too. It seemed liked I had a larger palette of tonal colors available to me and altissimmo was much easier and had more volume available. The high end of the horn sounds richer too.


I have a 5 hour gig on NYE where I will really put it thru its paces and post more. I tried 3 strengths, 2.25, 2.5 and 2.75. I am keeping the 2.25 for general use and the 2.5 for those situations where I need a harder reed. Not sure if the initial hardness will hold. Fibracells lost some of their hardness after a couple of hours and never got it back.

For $3 Legere will exchange the 2.75 for another one of my choosing. Even if I had played it for up to 30 days ! They will only do that twice per customer but that should be all you need to find the hardness you want.

I want to thank Pete Thomas for his recomendation of these. Thank You Pete !

 

[johnny b]

Hi there Captain Beeflat,
F.N.Q. far north queensland. Photo is Airlie Beach. gateway to the Whitsunday Islands. Aust.

I am practicing regularly, so it would be nice to just pick up the horn and play. I am not being lazy, still spend
time cleaning/drying horn. Very humid climate here.
Just want to get on with practicing. I realise how important ' tone ' is but I should be able to achieve some
sort of personal sound/tone using a synthetic reed for a short duration?
I will wait and see what the majority consensus is. I will have a look at Fibracell M/S. Cheers.

 

[dexdex]

I'm a longtime synth user, so I'm certainly not gonna bash them. Still, your point is interesting.
My almost philosophical question: isn't it part of the duty as a beginner to
1. approach the horn from it's fundamental & historical way, which would mean cane
2. integrate the "uncertainty and doubt" of cane in the whole process of becoming familiar with your horn
Maybe this is a totally old fashioned view... (en français: ringard...)

 

[johnny b]

Thanks Saxxsymbol,
That is all useful information. I will investigate Legere. 5 hour gig New Years. Hope you have time to fit in a cold beer.
Cheers.

 

[saxxsymbol]

It works out to 4 one hour sets with 20 minutes breaks. And NYE is the night musicians get paid what they are worth IMHO.

Have a safe and happy one !

 

[johnny b]

I can see where you are coming from dexdex. Maybe the easy way is not always the best. I may have to do

the hard yards and integrate the uncertainty into my learning process. I could be just a bit impatient at the moment.

I don't want to miss any of the learning process by taking short cuts.

 

[Captain Beeflat]

I don't want to miss any of the learning process by taking short cuts.

Neither do you need to add complications.
Neither should you fall into the old "tone" trap....nothing wrong with Pete Thomas' tone.
To a large degree it depends upon your desired style of playing. I am assuming that you do not wish to play Classical Music otherwise you would have chosen a more appropriate instrument....such as the oboe or Cor Anglais. :bluewink:

 

[SchlockRod]

My 2 cents is that at your level your chops will still be developing, adapting, changing, and rapidly day-over-day (hopefully into the right approach & muscle memory for you to get your best sound).
Because of that, I would stick with cane until you at least find the right strength for your chops/mouthpiece, once your chops are settled into their ultimate state of firm muscle, which could take a while. I've been playing seven months and I'm still moving to stronger reeds.
If you do 2-3 hours minimum solid playing each day the process moves faster.
I suppose synthetics can be trimmed like cane, but at least with cane there is a limit to how much trimming they'll tolerate (Larry Teal says about 1/16" max - I've gone quite a bit further).

 

[Pete Thomas]

I will go back to cane reeds once I get the basics sorted out.
Does this make any sense ?

None whatsoever. If you find a synthetic reed which works well for you, I see no point in going back to cane.

Members here, in the past, nearly came to blows on this subject....yet, when Pete Thomas "owned up" to using a synthetic, it suddenly went quiet.....strange!

I didn't really "own up", but I was surprised when I found that Legere Signature reeds were as good, if not better than, any cane reed I have used plus I could use one for over a year. So surprised in fact, I decided to become a Legere endorser.

 

[Captain Beeflat]

My 2 cents is that at your level your chops will still be developing, adapting, changing, and rapidly day-over-day (hopefully into the right approach & muscle memory for you to get your best sound).
Because of that, I would stick with cane until you at least find the right strength for your chops/mouthpiece, once your chops are settled into their ultimate state of firm muscle, which could take a while. I've been playing seven months and I'm still moving to stronger reeds.
.

I think that most of us went through the stage of progressively stronger reeds.
Following that, many of us spent even more time re-learning how to play softer reeds.
Early days for you as yet, but remember that the reed /set-up should not be hard work or the enjoyment vanishes.
One gets no medals for playing a No.7 (extra hard) reed. Play what is comfortable for you but that which allows you to play the whole range of the horn with ease.

 

[johnny b]

Thanks for all the advice. I am going to order a legere sig. #2. & Fibracell S., try them both and see how they feel and sound.
Can I just say, I am a late bloomer and the strangest thing happened. While practicing my fingers started getting ahead of where
I was reading, on the correct notes. I just let my fingers do the walking. Went with the flow. Very enjoyable.

 

[Dave Dolson]

I see nothing wrong with starting on synthetic reeds. True, one needs to experience cane just for comparison purposes.

Fibracells come in two styles, I THINK. Or at least the previous issues came in word-strengths (soft, medium, etc.). The newer Fibracells are called Premier and come in numerical strengths (1, 1 1/2, 2, etc.).

After an exchange with dexdex on another thread, I went back to a Legere Studio #2 reed I had in my box for clarinet. And, it worked! It lacked the overall buzz that I got out of a Fibracell Premier but the lack of total power was offset by better response. This is on a practice-clarinet I leave assembled on a peg in my office. My gigging clarinet is still Fibracell-equipped.

I also have a Legere Studio 1 1/2 for alto, but it doesn't come close to the Fibracell Premier 1 1/2 I've been using.

I've been down the return-road with Legere before. If I run across some in a store somewhere, I'll probably buy a few in different strengths to see if I can sort it out, but the Fibracells seem to work better for me, so far.

One other thing, there are some inconsistencies I've found among Fibracells - one can play better than another in my experience (same strength and cut). And, I've found I can do some adjusting with sandpaper on a Fibracell. I haven't tried anything like that on Legere's (which resemble the old Bari plastic reeds to my eye). So, maybe just one of each kind won't be sufficient to form a solid opinion. DAVE

 

[johnny b]

Thanks for passing that information on Dave. Do you, or anyone else know how reliable/accurate the manufacturer's comparison charts are.
Those legere signature were not cheap.Maybe the Studio range will be sufficient for me. I will look at the Fibracell Premiers. I am using Rico Royal #2 at the moment. cheers.

p.s. Saxxsymbol mentioned that Legere, for a small charge, will exchange a reed for an appropriate
strength. Is this still the case.

 

[Dave Dolson]

The Legere exchange program was good the last (and only) time I tried it. I don't recall having to pay - I just returned the reeds. Yes, that DOES open a whole 'nother series of questions.

That was within the past two years, as I recall. I think a simple Internet search (especially at the various makers' sites) will show a comparison chart. I don't know what the differences are among regular Fibracells and the Premiers, nor the Studio and Signatures. I suspect someone's masters degree in marketing may be at work here. DAVE

 

[Pete Thomas]

Those legere signature were not cheap.Maybe the Studio range will be sufficient for me.

They are very different, for me the Signature is a real reed, the Studio is not comparable.

 

[jlima]

I tried both the Signature and the Studio Legeres. Still own them, but honestly, I hate them. Cane all the way!

 

[dexdex]

........I am a late bloomer......

OK. Forget about cane. Fibracell or Légère Signature all the way. No time for cane. :bluewink:
Oh, and BTW, congrats for your horn. The Ref 36 is not exactly a student horn.

 

[saxxsymbol]

The Fibracell numbered system reeds are more consistent and have more grades to choose from and they sound better than the ones marked M, or MS etc. to me. So far I still prefer the Legere. I played the Legere Signature cut last night at a 2 hour rehearsal. I don't understand how but the intonation is better with these than the Fibracell. I don't have a clue how or why just that it is.

Beautiful core sound and edge when I want it. The 2.25 seemed to stay the same the whole practice. I only wish that, like Fibracell, they looked liked a natural reed.

I'll post another review after the 5 hour NYE gig.

I'll probably be ordering some for my alto too.

And yes Legere will exchange reed strengths up to two times per customer to allow you to find the hardness that is right for you.