[Freefall40]

Got sn.106xxx SX90 tenor that came with two necks.
Need info on those; are they sterling and copper ones?
Silver says 6.6 on neck tenor collar...what's that about?

I heard that maybe this was sold with two necks originally.
Thinking that that serial makes it about 1997 year, right?

Appreciate any light on this...so thanks in advance guys!
-Pete

 

[KennyZ]

Should be the Diamond series necks, the copper and the silver plated
Because I have a SX90 alto I also made some research about the numbers but I found nothing in particular
For sure there are differences in sound and response between necks with different numbers, about the finishes I'm not able to say the same

 

[carr]

Peter Ponzol may know.

 

[turf3]

The "silvery" one looks like nickel plate to me, not silver, but photos can deceive. Look inside with a strong light and you can tell whether it's plated or solid material. I believe Keilwerth made some horns with bodies of solid nickel alloy (so-called "Nickel silver" or "German silver" which does not contain any actual Ag) so this could be solid material as well, I suppose.

The other one may be "copper" (correct terminology would be a "high copper content alloy" as it's unlikely to be electrolytically pure copper (too soft and weak) - and brass is another type of copper alloy, but with less copper and more Zn) solid material, or just plated to give an appearance. It'll be a lot harder to figure out which by looking as tarnished copper inside a sax neck and tarnished brass inside a sax neck are going to look much alike.

 

[KennyZ]

Freefall40... beyond materials and numbers, what difference you found in terms of sound?

 

[Freefall40]

This is new to me and haven’t spent enough time with it to comment on sound differencies with these two necks.

But have another question about laquer; tube and bell are different shade than keys.
Is that common or some sort of finishing option? Or was different laquer used on body/bell and keys?

Valuewise, what do you think? Thanks again for insight and knowledge.

 

[turf3]

Could be different alloys. Body tubes are deep drawn parts (not super deep like a soda can, but deepish) so you've got to have good formability. Key cups are a very shallow draw so a higher strength alloy that's less formable can be a better choice. Rods and other machined components are going to be an alloy with good machinability - but all reasonable brass alloy choices are so machinable that you probably want to go for hardness and strength, as even very strong and hard brass alloys machine well.

Then if you spray the same lacquer with the same amount of tinting agent on all of them the lighter color alloys will come out lighter, which is what the photos appear to show.

That said, the posts appear darker and they would be machined parts, so it could be as simple as keys being sprayed in one production lot and tubes in another, and different dye lots of the lacquer in between (finish out the big batch of keys on Thursday, change the barrel of lacquer (with tint) on Friday and clean the spray booth, change the filter, adjust the airflow and put the new nozzles on the spray guns, Monday start doing a big batch of body tubes).

If it's an SX90 and not an SX90R, it's the next to most expensive Keilwerth of the time, a fine professional instrument. I'd expect pricing to be about in line with the Selmer Super Action 80 and Yamaha Custom of the time (given equivalent conditions). I don't think the Yamaha 82 series had been introduced yet, but could be wrong.

 

[Freefall40]

It’s SX90 and according to serial from 1997.

 

[JCBigler]

I don't think they started making the diamond series necks until a few years later, after Boosey and Hawkes sold them. I want to say that those necks were from the Music Group/pre receivership era. And I don't think Keilwerth ever sold their horns with two necks as standard. If someone bought them with multiple necks, it was a special/add-on order.

My alto purchased in summer of 1999 is an early 110xxx, so 106xxx sounds about right for 1997.

ETA: You can still purchase those necks today: Necks | Keilwerth

If your horn is gold lacquered, it would have come with a gold lacquered neck. Those were both add ons after the fact. But the good question is: Where is the original neck?

 

[JCBigler]

The "silvery" one looks like nickel plate to me, not silver, but photos can deceive. Look inside with a strong light and you can tell whether it's plated or solid material. I believe Keilwerth made some horns with bodies of solid nickel alloy (so-called "Nickel silver" or "German silver" which does not contain any actual Ag) so this could be solid material as well, I suppose.

The silver one is not nickel plate. I have a clear nickel plated alto, and the finish is smooth, not pebbled like in the picture, shiny but darker than silver. Also, the neck for my alto has the number 5 engraved on it.

My nickel-silver tenor is solid nickel-silver and doesn't look like the photos of that neck either. The nickel-silver is more of a burnished grey color than a shiny silver or nickel. Also my nickel-silver tenor neck as an X engraved on it.

 

[JCBigler]

This is new to me and haven't spent enough time with it to comment on sound differencies with these two necks.

But have another question about laquer; tube and bell are different shade than keys.
Is that common or some sort of finishing option? Or was different laquer used on body/bell and keys?

Valuewise, what do you think? Thanks again for insight and knowledge.

What you have there is the most rare of all Keilwerth finishes (other than those titanium ones that Stephan Bosken built). It is the "gold nickel", model 3400-5G. It's gold lacquer over nickel plate. The keys are gold lacquered. But the nickel plate gives the body and bell a deeper richer gold color under the gold lacquer. It should be worth substantially more than a normal gold lacquered horn. It's been officially discontinued since Buffet bought Keilwerth out of receivership.

Keilwerth "Gold Nickel"?

I've seen a few references to this as a new finish. Is this the "old" gold lacquer over nickel plating, or something different? The Schreiber Keilwerth site says the following, but it doesn't always appear up to date: •JK3400-5G body nickel plated and gold lacquered, keys gold lacquered

www.saxontheweb.net

 

[Freefall40]

Thanks JCBigler for info ! Very interesting.
Naturally, it is a pitty that I don't have the original neck. I really wish I would but can't track the trail of previous owners more than two steps back and they don't know if there ever was original neck with the horn or not.
This color looks really great, like 'real' ( old ) vintage horns. I had a SML revD that was just about the same color (a little deeper, amber kinda). Very cool look.

And for KennyZ; I find copper (color?) neck suit me better, I get softer sound out with that. The silver sounds to me more bright and cutting.
I'm myself a subtone-type of a player and not so much after huge projection.

But man, the projection...this horn has an overwhelming capacity to produce sound; some horns start to chocke and the sound kinda breaks when you really push. But SX90 can absolutely take everything you can give and shoots it out the bell beautifully with no problem and distortion.
And even more, it can whisper ever so sweetly.
Don't know quite to explain, but the horn gives me, as a player, more room for expression than any other I've played before...it can tell my story better that others have so far.
And I really like that aspect in this horn.

I'm curious to hear how others experience and describe these horns ?

These thoughts about the SX90 are just my view based on my personal experience with limited skills as a player.
But I think there are others that praise these horns also.

I've owned some very good horns;
SML revD, King Marigaux, Yamaha Z, Viking M60 Valkyrie, Selmer SA80 II, BuffetCrampon S-1 silverplated, Yani T-991 and a handful of others. All tenors.

Have to say, all and all, this SX90 is my favourite so far. Propably will sell it at some point but will miss it dearly. But for now, I'm enjoying it.

 

[Freefall40]

are

 

[Txsaxkat]

When I got my SX90R in early 90s I talked to Kirk Whalum and he told me they had some issues with the necks and to try more than 1 neck before I bought the horn. So maybe the person that had this horn was aware of the issue and bought extra necks and maybe sold the original neck.