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Discussion Starter #1
I can stay on time at fairly fast tempos with straight notes, but swinging slows me down considerably.
All the little finger inaccuracies really stand out.
The greater the amount of swing the harder to stay in time and not slow down.
Something to shed with metronome.
 

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All the little finger inaccuracies really stand out.
A few things:

1. Shed with the metronome at quarter = 60, play quarter notes, no articulation. No articulation. Sans articulation. Once you have that accurate and not a struggle, bump the metronome down 3 clicks. Repeat.

2. Find the upper temp you're most comfortable and accurate with (lets say it's 95). Meaning, no glitches. After you have #1 happenin', come back to this tempo (95) and shed. Again, no articulation.

3. Shed #1, then shed #2, bump the metronome up a few clicks. Shed it. Repeat #1.

"Shed what, specifically?"

Depends on what you're working on.
 

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I'm not sure I understand this post .

" The greater the amount of swing .." what do you mean by that ?
They're probably "swinging" based on articulation/rhythm as opposed to feel. You know, "slur into down beat" / "first and third triplet" kind of thing. If they start working on swinging quarter notes it'll help.
 

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If you mean "swinging" eighth notes, the faster the tempo, the less you swing them. Listen to Charlie Parker (and numerous other great players); at faster tempos he plays the eighth notes fairly straight, but his lines still swing like mad. Up tempo, swing has more to do with articulation and syncopation.
 

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Just realized— of all the different settings I’ve seen on metronomes & metronome apps I don’t recall ever seeing one that had swing as an option
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I agree that the faster the tempo the closer to straight 8ths.
I have been practicing tonguing/accenting the up beats and slurring the down on 8th notes.
I've noticed that some styles of music (Reggae & Ska for instance) sometimes swing 8ths less than jazz.
Creating a swinging feel when sequencing midi on a computer is challenging since how I feel swing certainly isn't a simple subdivision of the beat.
I've seen apps that supposedly swing but still sound mechanical.
I'm going to use a metronome more often for sax practice.
My flute playing is better controlled.
 

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I agree that the faster the tempo the closer to straight 8ths.
Then I fail to see what the issue is. Are you wanting to 'swing' those uptempo 8ths? It can be done, but it doesn't really sound good, probably for the very reason you suggest; at a fast tempo it messes with the time.
 

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Here's a novel concept: Play something slower swing (maybe around 120 bpm) but I specifically want you to try two things....
1. Play ALL of your 8th note lines straight.
2. Don't tongue ANYTHING unless you specifically need to in order to execute the line on your horn.

I'll predict you'll notice two very distinct things.
1. You're tonguing more than you realized and probably with too much "T" consonant instead of "D".
2. Your fingers are far more sloppy than you thought. Tonguing a lot and/or over tonguing covers up a lot of nasty finger sloppiness.

Seriously... just put those two limitations on yourself. Nothing more, nothing less. Reading your posts, I truly believe you're THINKING too much and trying to do too much (accomplish) at once. Simplify EVERYTHING and don't move on from it until you're 100% satisfied with your first task.

For what it's worth.....
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Here's a novel concept: Play something slower swing (maybe around 120 bpm) but I specifically want you to try two things....
1. Play ALL of your 8th note lines straight.
2. Don't tongue ANYTHING unless you specifically need to in order to execute the line on your horn.

I'll predict you'll notice two very distinct things.
1. You're tonguing more than you realized and probably with too much "T" consonant instead of "D".
2. Your fingers are far more sloppy than you thought. Tonguing a lot and/or over tonguing covers up a lot of nasty finger sloppiness.

Seriously... just put those two limitations on yourself. Nothing more, nothing less. Reading your posts, I truly believe you're THINKING too much and trying to do too much (accomplish) at once. Simplify EVERYTHING and don't move on from it until you're 100% satisfied with your first task.

For what it's worth.....
Thanks, I'll try.
 

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I agree that the faster the tempo the closer to straight 8ths.
I have been practicing tonguing/accenting the up beats and slurring the down on 8th notes.
I've noticed that some styles of music (Reggae & Ska for instance) sometimes swing 8ths less than jazz.
Creating a swinging feel when sequencing midi on a computer is challenging since how I feel swing certainly isn't a simple subdivision of the beat.
I've seen apps that supposedly swing but still sound mechanical.
I'm going to use a metronome more often for sax practice.
My flute playing is better controlled.
That deal of tonguing the off beats and slurring the on beats is an exercise. Please don't play an entire solo that way, it sounds bad (and a lot of people insist on doing it).

Metronome on 2 and 4 is the standard for practicing things that have a swing beat. If a passage is so difficult that you have to have the metronome on eighths, just play it straight till you get it down.

The degree of inequality of notes ("swungness") varies not only from style to style, but from minute to minute even within a given piece or given solo, and even within an individual lick. The only way to really get it down is to listen, a lot, to a lot of different players, and play a lot.
 

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Just realized— of all the different settings I’ve seen on metronomes & metronome apps I don’t recall ever seeing one that had swing as an option
There's no need for it. The worst thing I can imagine would be a metronome over there beating me over the head with its swinging eighth notes. That would be the very definition of "not swinging".
 

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One other thing thats helped me it to take whatever scale im working on and do it 1.straight eighths accent downbeats 2 straight eights accent off beats. 3. Swing eighths accent beat 4 swing eights accent off beats and 5. reverse rhythm accent down beats (so rather than a swing long short rhythm reverse it to short long rtythms. This has helped me have control over where and how much I swing. and its like vibrato , not always the same way or same speed. Hope this helps. I might have demoed 1 through 4 on one of practice with Kride vids. K
 

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The word swing can be confusing.

People use it to mean 1/8 notes (quavers) that have triplet feel e.g.

View attachment 242804

But as we know it isn't that simple, faster tempos they become less triplety and slow tempos can become more like dotted quaver/semiquaver.

So what make one band swing better than another or one player swing more than another? Is it because they have just the right amount of tripletyness for that tempo or that genre?

What is the magic formula you can learn to make you the swingiest ?

But we also know that another way top swing is to articulate the 1.8 note "and" beats.In this case it often seems to swing even when the 1/8s are straight (equal). And it is not really the actual tonguing that causes this stinginess, it is more the fact that those notes are a bit louder on account of the tongue, so instead of articulating you can just slur them but make them louder. Or a combination of both.

The term swing band seemed to have been invented in the 30s, so did people in the 20s swing or not?

We also read in Wikipedia (the fount of all truth) The verb "to swing" is also used as a term of praise for playing that has a strong groove or drive. So it doesn't actually need to have the tripletyness at all surely. Something can groove without it.

Solid reety to boot daddio. McVoutissimo o'reeny
 

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For fast passages I swing by accenting tops of phrases like Parker did. (he does it much faster than me) at slower tempos its like Pete said K
 

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Years ago I studied at Conservatory with a professor who gave me something to think about. He said, swingin' 8's are not certainly dotted 8th plus 16th, and not certainly tripleted. They're straight 8's but smeared, like butter on bread.
This said, I think what really helped me was transcribing, playing slurred straight 8s, and then adding the articulation but keeping this feeling of continuous air flow.
 
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