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Discussion Starter #1
Have an opportunity to purchase either a Superba1 (late model) or a SX90R (around 2000 model). The Couf is 20 years older than the Keilwerth. Both are in good shape. Which would be preferred? Thanks!
 

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I have a 83xxx Toneking Exclusive, the last top model of the Toneking line, and a 120xxx SX90R. They are both great horns with that broad Keilwerth vibe. The SX90R mechanics are more refined, while the TK feels like built for eternity. The right thumb hook is lower at the SX90R, which fits my hand better. I prefer the SX90R (and the tonehols are level, no problem here). But just playtest them and go for the tone. Best from Germany!
 

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SX90R is a better bet as far as resale but those Couf's have a very distinctive tone and they are built like a tank.
 

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What are the prices of the horns?
 

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The SX90R is going to have the rocker mechanism and the non sticking G# mechanism. The tubes of both horns are identical so they should sound similar. My choice would be the SX90R.
 

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Don't let that non sticking G# mechanism on the SX-90R fool you. If you consume enough sugary drinks while playing it'll stick with the best of them.
 

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Have an opportunity to purchase either a Superba1 (late model) or a SX90R (around 2000 model). The Couf is 20 years older than the Keilwerth. Both are in good shape. Which would be preferred? Thanks!
If you are talking tenors, both are very good horns and worth trying. James Houlik had a great sound on his Couf back in the late 1970s and early 1980s (absolutely HUGE), but he also had to do a lot of customizing with crescents to make the intonation meet his standards. You can hear how he made the Couf sound here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i12HcPXPWk

One of the problems Couf Superbas are notorious for is flatness in the palm keys, noted by SX90R developer Peter Ponzol:

https://thesaxinfo.wordpress.com/20...-the-lyricon-modell-peter-ponzol-and-pro-one/

So I would be very careful to check intonation. I have an SX90R, and although I favor the sound of the Selmer Serie III, I think it really is a worthy successor to the Couf.
 

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Have an opportunity to purchase either a Superba1 (late model) or a SX90R (around 2000 model). The Couf is 20 years older than the Keilwerth. Both are in good shape. Which would be preferred? Thanks!
Take the later model, IMHO. Ergonomically, just more refined...the kick#ss sound comes with either.

I would imagine the SX90 is higher priced, yes ? It should cost more than a Couf I....
 

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I have a Couf Superba 1 alto (mid 80s), a ToneKing Special Tenor (mid 80s), and an SX90R baritone (early 2000s).
The Superba and ToneKing are very similar in construction and "color" of sound, and capable of tremendous volume and built to last.
They can sometimes be a bit picky about not playing nice with small-chambered mouthpieces for me, but otherwise I have complete happiness with them.
The SX90R is definitely built "lighter" and more delicate, in comparison. It plays well and the ergonomics are good and it has good response, but it definitely feels like a newer, less massive horn. The brass is noticeably thinner on the SX90R and the ergonomics are *slightly* better.
I think that all Keilwerths have a darker, more spread sound than anything from Yamaha, Yanigasawa, and most Selmers. But I also think that the newer SX90R horns are comparatively less different in sound from them than the earlier Superbas/ToneKings were.
They are all nice horns, in my opinion.
If you can try both to find your preference, I would definitely do it.
Because of the age difference, the Couf should be less $$$, but if it is in nice condition that horn can do most anything and is very under rated.
 

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I have a Toneking Special (Superba 1) and a SX 90R.
The Toneking Special is less focused than the SX 90R. The tone at the "Special" is rounder, has more belly and fullness. I prefer it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for all of the opinions and advice. Ended up with the SX90R in black nickel. Plays great! Now to find a good case for it! Thanks again!
 

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Thanks for all of the opinions and advice. Ended up with the SX90R in black nickel. Plays great! Now to find a good case for it! Thanks again!
Be aware that the large radius bow requires a different case design than most. There is a thread somewhere here that discusses case compatibility.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks! I was looking at the Jakob Winter 2195 but I emailed Winter and here was the reply:

Jürgen (Winter Ventures)
Apr 25, 13:52 CEST

Thank you for your request, indeed, the keilwerth instrument fits into the case 2195, but not 100% perfect.

Winter Ventures
Jakob Winter | UNIQHORSE | MYLE
 

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I have a King Super 20 tenor, it fits in my Jakob Winter 2195 case 100% perfectly...and I have a KeilWERTH bn SX90R tenor, it also fits in the Jakob Winter 2195 case 100% perfectly...they both fit with no movement at all.
 
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