Superba 1 bari value
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From a dealer or by owner? I'm going with 3k final answer. I'm not an expert, I'm just curious to see if I guess right. I see a shop is selling an immaculate one for 5 on Reverb. I think the last one I saw was 3400.
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Private seller. Yeah there's that and an sx90 for 5K. I'm looking for a Bb. I'd buy one of those and trade it for a Bb one... But there's more of the low A's around. Even with VI's right now, it's weird. And everyone's got prices jacked way up from where they were a year ago or less. I dunna get it.
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If you're going for a Bb, does it need to be a Superba?
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Not bad guesstimates there, a Low A at a shop $3000-3400 is believable/not eyebrow-raising.
Private seller, Low A Superba I ? $2500ish. If immaculate condition, maybe $2800.
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The Heritage is a slightly different beast than the King Tempos, Bundy Specials, etc, though.
Heritages are Superba I's or II's.
Tempos, etc, are New Kings. They are soooooo similar, but having just finished up another Couf Tenor here, I still gotta admit, the Coufs are a bit nicer under the fingers. So t isn't like the price point differentials are completely unfounded (not saying you are suggesting this, BTW).
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Right, sounds like you want a Low Bb with modern-esque ergos. That's a tall order if you don't wanna succumb to the absurd VI pricetags. Keilwerth stencils are an obvious choice, as they move in that modern direction.
Armstrong made (subcontracted) a Bb model for a short time which does that too (I believe it was JK-made, this mid 90's) but those are rare to pop up; and when they do nobody even looks at 'em because of the name engraved on the bell.
B&S made some Low Bb's with a nice modern pinky table, but likewise, they don't pop up often and when they do, usually in Europe....
The only other horn that pops to mind would be a Beaugnier-made Vito "Duke" sort of model...and those appear somewhat more often...to a vintage buff, the keywork on those seems modern - but to a person used to only Yamaha or Yani or Selmer or their knockoffs, notsomuch.
It'd be interesting IF a contemporary maker of repute....Yama, Yani, even Jupiter or Buffet or Mauriat or Cannonball or Eastman, or even a slightly less-reputed/track-record boutique maker but one still held in some regard (Kessler, Barone for instance)....introduced a Low Bb to the market.
Might it do well ? It'd certainly corner the market (niche).
It isn't like it'd be incredibly hard nor would it mess up the assembly line significantly....as history shows, it's really just a different bellpiece and the omission of 2 key mechanisms. 95% of the horn spec/fabrication remains the same.
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Doesn't need to be a Superba by any means. Looking at all the Keilwerth variants because I find the truly modern finger spacings a little close for me, 'though I had a VI bari briefly and could deal with that. I had trouble with the left cluster but could learn it I'm sure.
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Keilwerth makes a Bb SX90. Special order, $9K or so. I'd spring for it but I'd probably have a hard time doing so without ever having laid hands on any manner of Keilwerth. The ergonomics are critical for me due to joint problems. So I've been thinking maybe find a low A stencil of some sort, although some of these have different keywork, just to have maybe a sense of this without laying out $10K that would be a huge risk if it didn't work out. I could deal with a VI but their prices have just skyrocketed ridiculously in the past year and I refuse to participate in that. I could probably find a Series II for less than the average VI asking price. And most of the Bb VI's are in hiding...
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Very Cool...unfortunately, Thomann's in-house brands do not have any sort of firmly established cred yet.....but cool that they offer one.
But then again, I mean, heck if one wanted to roll the dice and keep fingers crossed that a cheaply-offered asian made stencil could turn out to serve its purpose well....it'd be no more of a roll of the dice than buying one of their $500 Tenors and hoping it'd be a reliable, decent sounding axe....
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Yes, thanks I had heard that, that they'd supply a low Bb.
It is just, yeah...if it didn't suit you, if you went to resell...you'd lose $3g immediately on flipping her.
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My background is 15+ years on a Martin Comm III. That horn fit my hands like a glove but as my hands have deteriorated I think I'll be better with a little less spread, not that that horn felt spread to me. In particular the distance from the thumb to the pinky.
Maybe I could adapt to the full modern VI/Japanese layout and that would open up the Taiwan horns, but each time I research one I come away with less than full confidence. Hence the appeal of the Keilwerths. I'll add Beaugnier and their stencils, will have to research that a bit, is there a particular model of Beaugnier that is the one to look for? Not that I see that many of them either
Thanks.
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Exactly.
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Gotcha, so if it isn't the usual "I need modern keywork" thing, that does open up a wider variety of options, potentially....My background is 15+ years on a Martin Comm III. That horn fit my hands like a glove but as my hands have deteriorated I think I'll be better with a little less spread, not that that horn felt spread to me. In particular the distance from the thumb to the pinky.
Maybe I could adapt to the full modern VI/Japanese layout and that would open up the Taiwan horns, but each time I research one I come away with less than full confidence. Hence the appeal of the Keilwerths. I'll add Beaugnier and their stencils, will have to research that a bit, is there a particular model of Beaugnier that is the one to look for? Not that I see that many of them either
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Yeah I just don't want to go backward from the Comm III ergonomically if that makes sense. I bought a Super 20 alto and tenor in the past year and those are the most modern horns I've owned. I sold a Super 20 bari recently mostly because the keywork was more spread than the Martin, also it was physically just a really big horn or at least felt like it. I had a VI briefly and that felt nice and compact by comparison. It just had some intonation problems I didn't want to deal with and the left cluster was weird for me but I think it could have been workable.
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I couldn’t work with a VI either, or a YBS 62.
But I found the YBS61 to be more comfortable as well as the Yanagisawa B6.
They are however Low A horns.
I was in discussions a few months back with a seller on eBay about his Low Bb SX90.
I could get him down to around $5000 for it but went in another direction instead.
I believe it is still available and may be worth investigating, but I would insist on a lot more photos and information, as the pics he had were pretty ordinary.
For comparison Quinn the Eskimo recently sold a Low A SX90 for about $5000 that looked to be in better shape and his shipping rates were far more reasonable that the other guy who wants something like $600 to ship from Indonesia to Australia.
Maybe hit up Matt (Quinn) and see what he has.
But I found the YBS61 to be more comfortable as well as the Yanagisawa B6.
They are however Low A horns.
I was in discussions a few months back with a seller on eBay about his Low Bb SX90.
I could get him down to around $5000 for it but went in another direction instead.
I believe it is still available and may be worth investigating, but I would insist on a lot more photos and information, as the pics he had were pretty ordinary.
For comparison Quinn the Eskimo recently sold a Low A SX90 for about $5000 that looked to be in better shape and his shipping rates were far more reasonable that the other guy who wants something like $600 to ship from Indonesia to Australia.
Maybe hit up Matt (Quinn) and see what he has.
Joined
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8,939 Posts
I couldn’t work with a VI either, or a YBS 62.
But I found the YBS61 to be more comfortable as well as the Yanagisawa B6.
They are however Low A horns.
I was in discussions a few months back with a seller on eBay about his Low Bb SX90.
I could get him down to around $5000 for it but went in another direction instead.
I believe it is still available and may be worth investigating, but I would insist on a lot more photos and information, as the pics he had were pretty ordinary.
For comparison Quinn the Eskimo recently sold a Low A SX90 for about $5000 that looked to be in better shape and his shipping rates were far more reasonable that the other guy who wants something like $600 to ship from Indonesia to Australia.
Maybe hit up Matt (Quinn) and see what he has.
But I found the YBS61 to be more comfortable as well as the Yanagisawa B6.
They are however Low A horns.
I was in discussions a few months back with a seller on eBay about his Low Bb SX90.
I could get him down to around $5000 for it but went in another direction instead.
I believe it is still available and may be worth investigating, but I would insist on a lot more photos and information, as the pics he had were pretty ordinary.
For comparison Quinn the Eskimo recently sold a Low A SX90 for about $5000 that looked to be in better shape and his shipping rates were far more reasonable that the other guy who wants something like $600 to ship from Indonesia to Australia.
Maybe hit up Matt (Quinn) and see what he has.
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