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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I have been curios about the King Super 20's for years, never wanted to spend the $3 to $5K bucks to find out if all that was said about them was true.

A week ago one showed up in my local Craigslist . The sax was donated to a local high school by a widow. The school was selling it to obtain funds for needed supplies... the economy has hit our local schools hard.

The people selling it knew it was a valueable sax, but that is about all. They first listed it as a Silver Sonic.. Not true...they were informed in no uncertain terms that they were wrong. It was a Super 20 Tenor with full pearls. They were asking $5K. So the price came down, and after dickering back and forth about the price, they accepted my offer.

The sax is everything and more, that I have heard about Super 20s. It is a keeper for me.

I was disappointed when I determined it was a re-lacquer...however , it was perfect in every other way... no dings, no repairs, the re-lacquer was very well done, engraving was very clear and crisp...had to be a factory job I told myself.

Anyway... my question to people here who know more than I do about King saxes is this : I need a ball park figure of value for this Super 20..It is a re-lacquer, but otherwise is in mint,show room condition...the case is not original, also. SN 303xxx makes it late 40s, early 50s? MHO is that the re-lacquer does not effect the quality of tone...this horn rocks for me. I need to let my kids know a value, as I am am getting on, and they know nothing about saxes and value. I paid well below market, I think ( under $3K).

Thanks, in advance for opinions.
 

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While the re-lacquer does reduce the value to collectors, it does not affect the sound. I know this has been debated but IMHO this is a "recent" (last 20-30 years) opinion fueled by speculators. You can read numerous accounts of artists in the past that had their saxes re-lacquered. I doubt anyone listening to those guys knew or cared sound wise if their sax had been re-lacquered. Just enjoy the Super 20. I certainly do mine and yes..... it was re-lacquered by my nephew during the time he was using it. It still plays beautifully! Anytime I let someone play it they always say WOW!
 

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Relacquers can be hard to spot sometimes. Instruments I had been convinced were relacquers turned out to be origin. It's best to get a professional to have a look and give you a value.

I would suggest finding a reliable shop/ repairer that can give them a value if/when they need it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks guys ( Oric, Smokey)

I agree with you both... I have questioned my re-lacquer opinion... My basis is the color of the lacquer is brighter than I have been lead to believe the original is. Original is supposed to be dark honey color. This laquer is kind of dark in on the bell lip, but body seems more like a modern Serie II Selmer color. I have a TH&C early 400 tenor and it is really dark honey patina. I guess that influences me on the Super 20.

Anyway, when I get a chance I am going to get another opinion from a local tech...In the mean time I am enjoying the ease of playing and the sound of this beast. Now the decision of keeping the 400 ...both great horns...edge goes to the Super 20 right now. May keep them both...400 has the edge on the bottom end.
 

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Super 20s are usually a nice honey/ treacle/ varnish colour. There's a bit of colour in the lacquer. Modern lacquer are nearer to being clear, so you get the brass.
Mine is a later mid-sixties one but it still has that varnish colour. They often offer different finishes though. I think if you go to the HN White website you may find a bit of info.
 

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While the re-lacquer does reduce the value to collectors, it does not affect the sound.
You can not say that carte blanche, and expect it to be believed.
How do you know the sound is not affected?

One cannot assume, in a relac, that tone holes have not been affected negatively, which imo, is the biggest concern.

... and I own some relacs, which have me wondering, how they would sound if they had not been relacquered.
 

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So, full pearl S 20 tenors are rare enough on the market that it's difficult to get even a ballpark figure. Here's one that went for $6K(!):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180714370611&category=16234#ht_500wt_1327

It looks as "showroom" as the one you describe, but it has also recently had a complete overhaul (by Oleg, no less) with some high dollar resos. It's most likely a relac too.

Here's another full pearl that doesn't look nearly as nice, but is probably original lacquer. It sold at $3500:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320747929027&category=16234#ht_500wt_1327
 

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Discussion Starter #9
OK , guys... I get it.

It boils down to what ever a buyer and seller agree to on any given horn .

I did see the sales of S20s mentioned...it blows you away and just confirms the buyer/seller theory.

Thanks, don't mean to stir things up....the horn sounds great, no matter what the lacquer is!
 

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How much do you want for it? :twisted:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi Dr G,

Before I stumbled on to this S20, I purchased a TH&C (1941/'42 early model,297xxx).

Right now the S20 is the one I'm keeping for sure. May sell the TH&C at some point. Bad market right now. The TH&C is pretty much original....VG mechanical and clean body condition....snap in's good, lacquer 80/90% and is for sure original ( very dark patina) .

thanks for asking
 

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OK, how much are you asking for the TH&C?

PM if you like, I'm serious on this one.
 
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