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Discussion Starter #1
Hey folks,

I recently acquired a 1949 Super 20. Trying to determine the originality of the lacquer. I've searched quite a it but no luck with this question.

Does anyone know if King sprayed lacquer the right over the pearls?

Cheers.
 

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Hey folks,

I recently acquired a 1949 Super 20. Trying to determine the originality of the lacquer. I've searched quite a it but no luck with this question.

Does anyone know if King sprayed lacquer the right over the pearls?

Cheers.
Nooooo. Post pictures to be sure, but no.
 

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I've seen a couple of them in person and handled them. I'd say no way. Still, it wouldn't stop me from buying it if it was a good player. I'm more interested about how it plays than whether it's been refurbished. That's for collectors who want something pristine to put on a shelf and never play. That's like buying a beautiful collectible car and putting it in a museum. Cars are built to be driven. Musical instruments are built to be played. [ /rant over].
 

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I disagree. I've had and seen plenty of original lacquer Super 20's from that era with overspray on the pearls. Its common with Kings and also with Buffets.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I thought lacquer on pearls meant relaq. But I've seen a few of these horns on reputable sites, claiming to be original, yet having lacquer on pearls (fork f, RH alt f#, less used keys). That's why I ask the question.

Thanks for your input...

Thanks for your input
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Here's a link to some photos https://photos.app.goo.gl/yHx1tDKrwauUWRko8

I'm trying to determine if the lacquer is original. Note the crazing in the lacquer. The horn looks good, finish wise, but then the pearls are pretty worn and the strap ring is pretty worn.

Any ideas.
 

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I've read people mentioning gold lacquer on old series silver necks before. Even silversonics.

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...lversonic-Super-20-With-A-Gold-Lacquered-Bell

The lacquer looks pretty original to me (and I dons’ see any trace of shallow engraving anywhere, on the contrary this is as crisp as the MAY come). I’ve looked very well but can’t see any lacquer over the pearls (maybe you mean the side ones?)
 

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I have a '66 King Cleveland (Acorn), and it had overspray on the Octave thumb pearl. I'm very certain it was not from relacquering. I simply steel wooled it off.
It seems if they did it on any models, they could've done it on all models.
 

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Gold lacquer on a silver neck? Thought they clear-coated them like the silver sonics. I take it the original case is missing?
My S20 is lacquered over the solid silver neck. I was more concerned about spray on the pearls, as mine doesn't have that. Maybe they had a sloppy day at the factory that day?
 

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Yes, they lacquered over the pearls. Your 1949 would have been gold lacquered (clear came later) including over the sterling neck.
The lacquer on pearls wore quickly so it's rare to find one with some left but they're out there.

Example from Getasax:
1952 alto, look down the sides of the alt F# key pearl




And look under the octave key where it crosses vertically over the neck

 

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Here's a link to some photos https://photos.app.goo.gl/yHx1tDKrwauUWRko8

I'm trying to determine if the lacquer is original. Note the crazing in the lacquer. The horn looks good, finish wise, but then the pearls are pretty worn and the strap ring is pretty worn.

Any ideas.
That's an original horn, looks like a very nice survivor. The crazing is period correct (on Buffet SDAs they call it "sparkle lacquer") and you see it on a lot of original 295xxx-299xxx Super 20s.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I've read people mentioning gold lacquer on old series silver necks before. Even silversonics.

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...lversonic-Super-20-With-A-Gold-Lacquered-Bell

The lacquer looks pretty original to me (and I dons’ see any trace of shallow engraving anywhere, on the contrary this is as crisp as the MAY come). I’ve looked very well but can’t see any lacquer over the pearls (maybe you mean the side ones?)
The lacquer is on the Front (fork) F and on the sides of the RH alt F#, that being said its a small amount.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for all the input...
 

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The lacquer is on the Front (fork) F and on the sides of the RH alt F#, that being said its a small amount.
I see it is a smudge, but everything else is correct and absolutely pristine. This is very rare, valuable and expensive horn.
 

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I'll buck the trend and go with probable relacquer. The case isn't a definitive clue, but it can be helpful. The finish on your horn looks pretty darn good for what... 70 years old? And though the case is in fairly good condition, the inside shows a lot of wear to indicate some good use for that horn. The worn neck strap ring is also an indicator of good use, as are the worn pearls. You'd think more lacquer would have shed; especially on the neck (which I learned here was done with colored lacquer over the solid silver... but also learned elsewhere was prone to more easy lacquer wear).

Some of the engraving has that zippered appearance, which can be a result of buffing. Also, even if these horns had the pearls on them when lacquered, you'd expect in 70 years that it wouldn't still show on the front F pearl. Also look very closely at the engraving on the low Bb and B pad cups. Inside the loops of the engraving there are like four or five parallel straight strokes. They don't look very sharp in your photos, and these tend to be a good telltale sign for relacquering.

So I'm leaning towards a relqcquer that was probably done some time ago, and then the horn was put away not too long after.
 
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