[44663]

Saxophone nerds: I think I discovered an alternative material for neck corks! Moldable silicon (Sugru) seems to transfer the vibrations from the mouthpiece to the brass better than traditional cork and really opens up the response and tone in the horns I've tried it on. I made a video describing the process. If anyone tries it, let me know - I'd love to compare notes!

 

[hakukani]

That'd be great, except the sound comes from the air column, not the brass.

 

[dtedsax]

If it's almost perfect but you want to add more Sugru,
rather than risking the possibility of ruining what you've done so far,
why not let the Sugru harden and later add more as needed.
In my experience wet Sugru sticks to hardened Sugru.

Good video!

 

[B Flat]

I highly doubt that sugru will have enough flex to allow positioning of the piece for tuning purposes.
I also doubt it’s sealing abilities in this situation.
I’m going to stick with cork for them good good good good vibrations.

 

[pontius]

Good idea worth experimenting with. Keep us updated on how this performs over the next few weeks/months.

 

[JimD]

Oh dear.

 

[44663]

Yeah, I was pretty skeptical of tonal/response improvements, too, but after doing this to several horns, the difference is undeniable as far as I am concerned. Huge improvement... I am eager for someone else to try it to verify my findings. Regarding the compression and being able to adjust the tuning - again - the proof is in the pudding. It's really easy to see (maybe not on the video, but IRL) that my translucent mouthpieces seal 100% up and down the cork, regardless of where I place it, and they stay put wherever. My other mouthpieces that I usually use all work fine as well, no issues. We'll see how they hold up, but I have high hopes! For the record, I don't think there is anything wrong with cork, but I've got Jim Schmidt pads in my Yani that don't budge, but got sick of having to change the cork every couple years and wanted a more long-lasting solution for my work horse alto. The improvement in response was a total pleasant surprise, but I think it would be rad if one of you more science-minded folks performed a controlled experiment to find out for sure.

 

[pontius]

Yeah, I was pretty skeptical of tonal/response improvements, too, but after doing this to several horns, the difference is undeniable as far as I am concerned. Huge improvement... I am eager for someone else to try it to verify my findings. Regarding the compression and being able to adjust the tuning - again - the proof is in the pudding. It's really easy to see (maybe not on the video, but IRL) that my translucent mouthpieces seal 100% up and down the cork, regardless of where I place it, and they stay put wherever. My other mouthpieces that I usually use all work fine as well, no issues. We'll see how they hold up, but I have high hopes! For the record, I don't think there is anything wrong with cork, but I've got Jim Schmidt pads in my Yani that don't budge, but got sick of having to change the cork every couple years and wanted a more long-lasting solution. The improvement in response was a total pleasant surprise, but I think it would be rad if one of you more science-minded folks performed a controlled experiment to find out for sure.

I can imagine that you get more feedback through your teeth/jaw/brain bone etc. That may be preferred by some. I'm not necessarily convinced that there could be any noticeable difference to the audience.

 

[44663]

If you’ve got an extra yas23 or something lying around, give it a try, won’t you? Theoretically I would say I’m blowing smoke, too, but experientially, it really does feel better and more responsive. — like my mark vi bari did after we soldered all the parts together (as opposed to using aquarium sealant). The horns just “pop” more - it’s hard to described. It really might all be in my head, (literally - hah!), but that’s why I’m looking forward to some of you more experienced heads giving it a try... I’m not trying to sell you anything, just drink the kool aid...

 

[claxton]

I’ve had great luck with Sugru in just about every application I’ve tried it on, not just key risers, but all sorts of things. I can see where it would do well as a cork replacement and I’ll try it when that need arises. I am skeptical (but not cynical) of a change in response or timbre when using it instead of natural cork. When describing the firmness to others, I liken it to automobile tire rubber.

Thanks for the post and the video!

 

[Jazz Is All]

The sensation or impression you describe, if not just the placebo effect, could be due to the sugru to mpc contact making a bond between the surfaces that is impenetrable to any air escaping somehow past the cork to mpc bore contact. I've never thought about it, but over time the cork compresses and theoretically that might leave enough space for air to blow through that supposedly impenatrable contact. If it does you have a leak that will effect the bottom end of the horn but not enough to cause gurgling or anything extreme like a leaky tenon does. Is there a test for that? Like for example, blowing smoke into the mpc and watching to see if any comes out over the neck past the cork/shank junction. If it proves to be true I could see doing it, but since I just paid for a new alto cork I'm not going to do that one, and my tenor and sop corks are just fine. But I will try the smoke test if I can bum a smoke from someone on the street. We don't smoke in my family.

 

[johnebravo]

I've never thought about it, but over time the cork compresses and theoretically that might leave enough space for air to blow through that supposedly impenatrable contact.

I guess I was under the impression that it was pretty much standard operating procedure to periodically "relax" the neck cork by putting it in steam vapor from boiling water for a few seconds -- it immediately expands. Any time I want to try another mouthpiece that has a larger bore, it does the trick in a minute; I've been doing this for years and never have seen any ill effects.

 

[Jazz Is All]

I guess I was under the impression that it was pretty much standard operating procedure to periodically "relax" the neck cork by putting it in steam vapor from boiling water for a few seconds -- it immediately expands. Any time I want to try another mouthpiece that has a larger bore, it does the trick in a minute; I've been doing this for years and never have seen any ill effects.

Yes, you're rght. I used to wet it under the tap and then blow it with the hairdryer set on high cause we don't have a tea pot. I guess I forgot about that procedure due to Senioritis or what an older friend calls CRS.....Can't Remember ****. LOL.

The problem for me is not a cork that is compressed and thus too loose for a mouthpiece. That is easily fixed by just wrapping a piece of plastic film cut from the wrapping of a pack of cookies like oreos or similar. On one side is the colorful label and on the other it is silvered. It's a firm think plastic and I simply cut it into a strip long enough to wrap around the cork enough to perfectly shim the mpc in the right place and keep it from moving at all. I lick the extremity so it sticks down and can slide under the edge of the bore. It's doesn't fall apart when it gets wet like paper and so can be reused numerous times.

The problem corks are those that are in place already and were sized to fit your current mpcs but suddenly are too tight for one that you then buy. I have that problem right now with two that have longer shanks than my usual mpcs and can't be pushed down far enough simply because the cork is conical and the bore of the mpc is cylindrical. I have tried to sand the lower part of the cork but it's synthetic cork and you can't really sand it. Big PITA.

 

[turf3]

Put the mouthpiece on before the stuff cures, and then you'll have the most positive connection possible.

In fact, why not use a brass mouthpiece and just solder it to the neck?

 

[Jazz Is All]

in fact, why not use a brass mouthpiece and just solder it to the neck?

bingo.......bing bing bing......we have a winner, the gentleman in the spandex jumpsuit with man bun and the blue rinse. (Or if you prefer, the polyester leisure suit and the toupee.)

 

[LostConn]

Saxophone nerds: I think I discovered an alternative material for neck corks! Moldable silicon (Sugru) seems to transfer the vibrations from the mouthpiece to the brass better than traditional cork and really opens up the response and tone in the horns I've tried it on.

Not for me, because:

1. Mouthpiece vibrations are unpleasant, and I'd rather have them absorbed than transmitted (this is one reason for using a mouthpiece patch).

2. Energy expended in causing portions of the instrument to vibrate is wasted; the ideal is get as much energy as possible from one's breath into the vibrating air column.

Beyond that, obviously it's fine if someone wants to experiment with alternatives to the neck cork. We've seen various O-ring systems, so why not Sugru? But what I don't get is why this type of simple change in materials always seems to result in a reported sonic breakthrough. Even going from a plastic strap hook to a metal one has been claimed to "open up" the sound of the instrument. Now we have to fine-tune our neck corks in addition to our ligatures for the best response and tone?

 

[Dr G]

Saxophone nerds: I think I discovered an alternative material for neck corks! Moldable silicon (Sugru) seems to transfer the vibrations from the mouthpiece to the brass better than traditional cork...

Given its hardness, it will also pass mechanical vibrations from the horn to the mouthpiece. I find such mechanical feedback annoying.

... and really opens up the response and tone in the horns I've tried it on.

I am forever wary of such claims. Improved response and tone often come with properly fitting a cork when the old one is defective.

 

[44663]

Like I say, I didn’t intend for the horns to feel and sound better - it was a pleasant surprise - a happy accident, if you will. This wasn’t a leaky cork situation, I assure you. But my question is this : how do we test this objectively? It seems to me there are too many potential variables in play-testing... thoughts?

 

[JimD]

I think this might be difficult and maybe impossible to test in a neutral fashion. If this is happening for you then just enjoy it and thanks for passing it on. I’m among the sceptics here but either way it’s an interesting way to “recork the neck. I don’t know Sugru and it’s properties, is it still flexible when dry and how do you get it off? It will also be interesting to see how long it lasts.

 

[megwenda]

Saxophone nerds: I think I discovered an alternative material for neck corks! Moldable silicon (Sugru) seems to transfer the vibrations from the mouthpiece to the brass better than traditional cork and really opens up the response and tone in the horns I've tried it on. I made a video describing the process. If anyone tries it, let me know - I'd love to compare notes!

You happy with the health risks?