[Clarinetdude108]

the neck on my tenor (a selmer mk VI) ocassionally gets stuck on the horn and becomes difficult to remove, and when i do get it off i sometimes get black stuff on my hands.

Is there a good way to fix this problem?

 

[Subbie]

wipe the black stuff off as best as you can both on the neck and the inside of the instrument
apply joint grease
rejoice

 

[Birdman]

sorry it was already said, forgot to scroll.

-Birdman

 

[JerryJamz2]

the neck on my tenor (a selmer mk VI) ocassionally gets stuck on the horn and becomes difficult to remove, and when i do get it off i sometimes get black stuff on my hands.

Is there a good way to fix this problem?

Clean the body socket and neck tenon with Naptha/mineral spirits/alcohol. Try fitting it again. If it's still too tight try taking some #00 very fine steel wool to both and re-clean per step 1. Try fit again. If it's still too tight, take it to a tech for proper diagnosis.

Never use any type of neck socket lubricant except in an emergency.

 

[jbtsax]

Keeping both the neck tenon and the receiver clean and shiny is the best solution. Adding grease or oil to a metal to metal connection is never a good idea on a sax or flute tenon joint.

"Miracle Cloth" cut into a long narrow strip will do an excellent job polishing the neck tenon. You may have to have someone else hold it over the edge of the table while you "shoe shine" it with the cloth. We use a wooden dowel that fits snugly inside the neck in a vice in our shop so it's a one person job.

You can also use the cloth over your index finger to clean and polish the inside receiver. Use a rubber glove because it can be messy. Be sure to clean each part with alcohol or Windex after polishing to remove any residue.

John

Old Jerry types faster than I do. (Probably thinks faster too.)

 

[CiaranAudio]

Never use any type of neck socket lubricant except in an emergency.

Second this. DO NOT USE LUBE ON THE NECK JOINT!!! Lube is not going to be of any use on the neck joint.

...what?...oh....SAXOPHONES!!!(?).....

....yeah seriously, dont use lube on the neck joint.

 

[Henry D]

OK- there's clearly a consensus among the posters that placing a bit of grease on the neck tenon is a morally bankrupt practice.... but I don't see why. It is, at least on tenor, alto, and baritone, an easily accessible location. There's no earthly reason why it should accumulate undue crud; I wipe the horn lightly with a rag each time I put it away and that includes about 7.23 seconds to run the rag around the inside/outside of the body socket and neck tenon. While no substitute for a good snug fit it certainly ensures that last bit of sealing perfection and, assuming one isn't slovenly enough to allow it to fill up with dirt, probably reduces rather than speeds up wear. It's not in an area where there's any risk of contaminating pads or mechanism- heck- not even clothing. Trumpets use the stuff on carefully machined slides with at least as close tolerances and there's no issue. I've been doing it for the past forty odd years and have had no issues. I'm certainly willing to change if there's some good reason but, "It's just not done my dear chap." isn't persuasive.

So what's the deal?

 

[Lefty]

In the case of lubricated tuning slides on trumpets, the slides don't leave the instrument in the normal course of things. Removing and reinstalling the neck on a sax (or a flute head joint) allows whatever is in the environment to attach itself to the lubricant, both neck and receiver. And that stuff takes up space, ultimately making the fit of the neck move problematic. Even the lubricant can take up space. And since most of what's in the world is harder than brass, the stuff that ends up in the lubricant can behave as an abrasive. Granted, wearing out the tenon in this manner might take two lifetimes, but wear will occur.

 

[Gordon (NZ)]

I agree with Lefty. And sometimes, if those particles of grit from the environment happen to be the right size and hardness, you don't just get wear... you get badly scoured surfaces.

1. Clean the tenon and socket, say with naphtha. If it is still tight...
2. Get rid of all the corrosion, with some sort of brass polish. Then REMOVE ALL THE POLISH before reassembling. If it is still tight, which is most unlikely unless it was always like that, or you damaged it, ...
3. Get a technician to adjust it.

 

[jbtsax]

So what's the deal?

It is not just the consensus of the posters in this thread. It is also the consensus of the vast majority of professional repair technicians. If you are not convinced of that---read the professional woodwind repair manuals and articles.

Adding a lubricant:
1. Is unnecessary if the joint is properly fit in the first place. If the joint is not properly fit adding oil or grease to make it airtight is a poor substitute.
2. Simply provides a way for grit to adhere to the metal and scratch or score the joint when it is put together as Lefty said in his excellent post.

John

 

[JerryJamz2]

There's no earthly reason why it should accumulate undue crud; I wipe the horn lightly with a rag each time I put it away and that includes about 7.23 seconds to run the rag around the inside/outside of the body socket and neck tenon.

So you would add lube before you assemble it each time and then also remove it when done each time? The majority of players do not do this thoroughly, every time they play it, and often not at all. You could spend 10 minutes running a swab through the socket and wiping the tenon down but that method does not eliminate the residual lubricant film which attracts foreign debris. Depending on the viscosity of the lube used, many will liquify enough at various temperatures and run down the bore, into toneholes, and into pads due to gravity. If metal tenon instruments were designed or intended to be lubricated, manufacturers would include it in the case, and I'd make additional $ by selling it. Never have I seen tenon or socket grease. Obviously things are amiss, so why not have it corrected instead. And remember that with the zillions of types and brands of various "lubricants" in the world, they are far from equal and some have negative effects on brass. Long-term avoidance of having the problem corrected will promote uneven and unnecessary wear which can cause leaking problems later on if the lube (which was filling the void prior) is removed and can thus make repairing the tenon/socket properly more difficult. And increase the repair bill.. :shock:

 

[Henry D]

Thank you for the responses. While I find them unpersuasive in my case I realize that there are a lot of musicians who have what I view as inanely low standards of instrument maintenance. How else to explain what routinely appears at the doors of a repair shop. Pinching the tenon between your fingers with a bit of rag and wiping it is hardly a demanding ten minute endeavour nor is it likely to miss anything of significance on these "in plain view" smoothly finished areas. But there are probably those who would goop on a big slug of something and leave it there with all sorts of deleterious consequences. Of course there are those who slug down coke, beer ETC between blows and who take their feather duster sax bore swab and shove it in there to foster healthy mold growth- or just heave the saliva mit Dorito bit beslimed horn into the case. Go figure.

Clarinets have their tenons greased (cork vice metal I know) and they are more apt to play warm than sax's. A lot of clarinet players also wind up screwing up their instruments in a big way by recreating the La Brea tar pits with grinding bits embedded twixt the joints. Just because it can be done wrong doesn't mean that it can't be done right though. About a gazillion clarinets have been greased without grease running onto the pads or eroding the wood through grinding. Another gazillion have been worn to nubs at the tenons through nitwititis but negligence has its price.

Trumpet main tuning slides are always (ought to be always) greased and probably ought to always be pulled, shaken out, and reinserted after each day's playing. Tell me how one even comes close to a regular regimen of achieving the cleansing equivalent of simply wiping a rag covered finger around the inside of the body socket on a sax for the female slide portions on the trumpet mouthpipe and lower inlet pipe? The answer of course is that one doesn't. And trumpets are extemely sensitive to greasy crud blowing into the valve area vice sax's which are by and large relatively tolerant. The thin film left on the surfaces after lilghtly greasing the tuning slide and then inserting it just doesn't migrate unless some Larry Harmon wannabe puts grease into the female bits (or the socket on the sax body vice the neck tenon).


As a final note- lightly greasing the tenons probably IS a solution in search of a problem. While I can assert that multiple horns over a third of a century of careful maintenance are all working perfectly using the technique- and that repair techs observations are almost by definition skewed towards horns that are screwed up- the countervailing assertion that they'd probably be in about exactly as good shape had I not done it is probably also true. Conceivably a bit obsessive compulsive and since not required and potentially messy if done wrong not recommended for the general playing public.

But big oil needs more sales these days...... so I'm still steadfastly at it.

Hey- will any one of you offer me a SOTW discount when I load up the car and bring them all in for tenon work?