[mountainsax]

I did a restoration on a Conn Chu Berry alto about 2 years ago. I got it back a few months ago for an adjustment on the octave mech and everything was working good. Then a few weeks ago the guy calls me and says all the keys are stuck. It seems that most of the rods and screws have become rusted/gummed up and stuck! We live in Colorado, so I can't believe that it is due to storage (unless the guy keeps it in his sauna!).

I'm trying to remember back to the restoration, and am thinking I may have used steel wool to clean rust from the rods. Could this have caused them to rust? Could old key oil cause this? I'm wondering if this is something that I could have caused.:faceinpalm:

 

[milandro]

did you oil everything before reassembling?

bad key oil may have contained some oxidants but that looks a bit rich.

I don’t think that steel wool could have done anything wrong but an unfit type of oil may be.

 

[mountainsax]

I definitely oiled everything before reassembling. I used the same key oil I have had for years. Thanks Milandro.

 

[milandro]

Then I am baffled, if the oil was good and the rods weren’t bent to begin with...

I am not a tech but I cannot think of any reason other than the saxophone got wet to explain the rods seizing .

Have you seen them?

 

[saxoclese]

The only way to tell for sure is to have him return the sax and to pull a few rods out and inspect them. If the rods were not wiped clean after using the steel wool some may have remained on the rod and produced the rust. I like to put a few drops of Ultimax key oil in the hinge tubes when installing keys, and a dab of Ultimax pivot grease in the opening of solid rods and on the pivot screw threads. Another thing I do is to spin the rods in my bench motor to clean and polish them using 2400 micro mesh and then spin them again and use a paper towel and a few dabs of Maas Metal Protector and Chrome Polish.. This probably sounds a bit OCD, but it insures that the mechanisms are dependable for a long period of time before the next "oil and lube".

 

[lydian]

I accidentally used some trumpet valve/key oil on one of my horns a few months ago, and the same exact thing happened. No rust or corrosion, but it caused the rods to bind badly after a few months. I had to fully disassemble, chemically clean off all the old oil, then use new key oil.

 

[mountainsax]

The only think he said he did differently was to add some silver tarnish strips to the case. Other saxes I worked on around the same time have had no issues. I'm baffled! I had to have some new hinge rods made for the upper and lower stack because they were so damaged getting them out, plus a couple new hinge screws. I hate to think something I did caused this.

 

[mountainsax]

Thanks saxoclese! I think I'll use some of your suggestions. I'd rather be considered OCD than have to deal with this mess again!

 

[TMadness1013]

What was your method of cleaning the rods before oiling/reassembly? I'd recommend cleaning rods with naptha to get all the previous gunk off. Also recommend using a pipe cleaner dipped in naptha to clean out all the old oil/dirt/etc. from the hinge tubes before putting in your newly cleaned and oiled rod. Keep going through the tube with fresh pipe cleaners until they run clean.

 

[mountainsax]

I used steel wool or a brillo pad to get the initial rust off, then cleaned everything with soap/water, rinsed well, dried well, key oiled liberally before reassembly.

 

[PigSquealer]

I used steel wool or a brillo pad to get the initial rust off, then cleaned everything with soap/water, rinsed well, dried well, key oiled liberally before reassembly.

Water was your culprit. Unless you heated them to make sure all the water had dissipated. I don't think drying with the paper towel would be sufficient. Lastly did you clean the hinge tubes out. Pipe cleaner down the hole with solvent like Naptha.

 

[saxoclese]

I discovered years ago that thin cheap brass valve oil is the perfect solvent to clean old thickened oil and sludge out of hinge tubes. It is also effective in removing lapping compound after lapping neck tenons. Dills cotton pipe cleaners work great with a few drops of valve oil to clean hinge tubes and then dry them afterward. The nylon ones from craft stores are pretty colors, but they are worthless in saxophone repair.

 

[mountainsax]

I used steel wool or a brillo pad to get the initial rust off, then cleaned everything with soap/water, rinsed well, dried well, key oiled liberally before reassembly.

Water was your culprit. Unless you heated them to make sure all the water had dissipated. I don';t think drying with the paper towel would be sufficient. Lastly did you clean the hinge tubes out. Pipe cleaner down the hole with solvent like Naptha.

I try to be super careful to make sure everything is totally dry before reassembling, usually letting things sit 2-3 days after drying. I use gentle compressed air to blow out the tubes. Very possible though that I missed some this time. I'll get some Naptha and give it a good cleaning. Thanks for all the input!

 

[JayeLID]

I discovered years ago that thin cheap brass valve oil is the perfect solvent to clean old thickened oil and sludge out of hinge tubes. It is also effective in removing lapping compound after lapping neck tenons.

ooooh, thanks for that tip.

 

[JayeLID]

This whole situation seems a bit bizarre to me, actually. OP said he washed & dried the rods well, and the lubrication is good. Also says some of the rods were brand-new replacements, so I assume those were not steel-wooled (?) yet are suffering the same symptoms ??? And he saw the horn ony a few months ago and all seemed copasetic...

I would be as baffled as you are, Mountainsax....

 

[Miralejos]

Did repairs for a guy who sang lead & played alto in a R&R band. Sweat dripping on the alto caused keys to bind & rods to rust. Hot lights & long hair didn't help.
cleaned up key tubes with paint thinner & pipe cleaner- rods with paint thinner/light gray 3M pads. Re-lube with thick key oil.

 

[mountainsax]

This whole situation seems a bit bizarre to me, actually. OP said he washed & dried the rods well, and the lubrication is good. Also says some of the rods were brand-new replacements, so I assume those were not steel-wooled (?) yet are suffering the same symptoms ??? And he saw the horn ony a few months ago and all seemed copasetic...

I would be as baffled as you are, Mountainsax....

The new rods haven't been installed yet, and hopefully won't have the same issues! Took some pics, just for the heck of it.

 

[Reet McVouty]

Whoa! I think you also need to find out what your client has been doing with his horn. I am not a tech, but common sense tells me if you've refurbished a lot of horns and this is the first you've had a problem with, then the owner may have done something wrong. Does he oil it periodically? What kind of oil is he using? How does he care for the instrument? Where does he store it? Since you did the work two years ago I think if it was something you did wrong he would have had problems earlier on, not two years later. I think you're beating yourself up over something that's probably not your fault.

 

[mountainsax]

I’m seeing a few different naptha products. Does anyone have a link to what they use?

 

[mountainsax]

I discovered years ago that thin cheap brass valve oil is the perfect solvent to clean old thickened oil and sludge out of hinge tubes. It is also effective in removing lapping compound after lapping neck tenons. Dills cotton pipe cleaners work great with a few drops of valve oil to clean hinge tubes and then dry them afterward. The nylon ones from craft stores are pretty colors, but they are worthless in saxophone repair.

Saxoclese, will any kind of valve oil work?