Sticky Mark VI tenor pinky rollers
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Frozen rollers, particularly on a vintage sax are usually frozen because the steel rod screw(axle) that the roller rotates on, has become rusty/corroded and caused the roller to bind onto it.
Try a penetrating fluid like "Plus Gas" - a fluid for freeing up seized nuts and bolts. Remove the keys and apply by placing some fluid in a lid and use a needle/pin/paperclip to apply the fluid exactly where you need it. Try and get the fluid in between the roller and the rod. It would also do no harm to apply some each end of the rod where it meets the key .
Leave for a few hours then try moving your roller - to assist you, try using an appropriate sized screwdriver to hold the rod still whilst you try to free the roller fom it. Whatever you do though, avoid ruining the screwdriver slot on the rod.
Repeat as necessary and be patient. If you do manage to free the rollers, remove the rods and clean thoroughly and remove any corrosion.
Worst case scenario is that you will need to break your rollers/rods and replace them.
good luck and let us know how you get on.
Try a penetrating fluid like "Plus Gas" - a fluid for freeing up seized nuts and bolts. Remove the keys and apply by placing some fluid in a lid and use a needle/pin/paperclip to apply the fluid exactly where you need it. Try and get the fluid in between the roller and the rod. It would also do no harm to apply some each end of the rod where it meets the key .
Leave for a few hours then try moving your roller - to assist you, try using an appropriate sized screwdriver to hold the rod still whilst you try to free the roller fom it. Whatever you do though, avoid ruining the screwdriver slot on the rod.
Repeat as necessary and be patient. If you do manage to free the rollers, remove the rods and clean thoroughly and remove any corrosion.
Worst case scenario is that you will need to break your rollers/rods and replace them.
good luck and let us know how you get on.
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2,532 Posts
WD40 is ok - a slightly better bet would be a proper freeing agent, such as Plus-Gas...and a lot of patience.
Apply, leave for a couple of days to soak in, reapply and leave...and repeat for a couple of weeks.
You might find that the roller will then move, but only so far. The screw will be bound to the roller with gunk and rust but the threaded stub will be able to turn in the touchpiece.
At this point you have to decide whether you're going to try to turn the screw and risk chewing up the slot, or take it to a repairer and have them finish the job off.
The most common technique is to place a well-fitting screwdriver in the screw slot and use it to keep the rod screw stationary while trying to turn the roller with the other hand. This breaks up the gunk/rust, after which point the screw can be removed.
Experience tends to be the key factor here...a repairer will be able to feel whether the roller is going to move, and either carry on or stop and treat with more freeing agent.
A little gentle heat will help, such as that provided by a hair dryer.
(Edit: Or - what Griff said, plus the hairdryer).
Regards,
Apply, leave for a couple of days to soak in, reapply and leave...and repeat for a couple of weeks.
You might find that the roller will then move, but only so far. The screw will be bound to the roller with gunk and rust but the threaded stub will be able to turn in the touchpiece.
At this point you have to decide whether you're going to try to turn the screw and risk chewing up the slot, or take it to a repairer and have them finish the job off.
The most common technique is to place a well-fitting screwdriver in the screw slot and use it to keep the rod screw stationary while trying to turn the roller with the other hand. This breaks up the gunk/rust, after which point the screw can be removed.
Experience tends to be the key factor here...a repairer will be able to feel whether the roller is going to move, and either carry on or stop and treat with more freeing agent.
A little gentle heat will help, such as that provided by a hair dryer.
(Edit: Or - what Griff said, plus the hairdryer).
Regards,
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17,082 Posts
"Experience tends to be the key factor here...a repairer will be able to feel whether the roller is going to move, and either carry on or stop and treat with more freeing agent."
And the inexperienced, with a less-than-ideal screw driver, is highly likely to wreck the head of the screw before succeeding. That makes it a much more difficult follow-up job for the experienced.
And the inexperienced, with a less-than-ideal screw driver, is highly likely to wreck the head of the screw before succeeding. That makes it a much more difficult follow-up job for the experienced.
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3,394 Posts
Hi Gordon...! I think thats probably where I'm at. This horn has been played hard since '81 and in the the hands of many a repairman.. some good and some well not so good..The roller screws on mine aren't perfect. I have a pretty good set of drivers so I was able to loosen the 2 small rollers, I WD'd and oiled the heck out of them but they still didn't get really free on the pin. I couldn't loosen the big roller at all. There is still some meat left on all the screwheads and I didn't mess anything up worse. I do have a good tech here in town hopefully he will be able to restore my rollers.
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3,094 Posts
Sometimes if you're lucky, you can unscrew and free seized rollers by turning them anticlockwise - as they turn, the screw will unscrew itself. Then apply a freeing agent and leave for several hours for it to penetrate and then turn it some more. Get a good pair of pliers that won't damage the screw head (or cover the jaws with a strip of thick leather to grip the screw) and hold it solid while turning the roller to free it even more and you should be able to pull the screw out while the roller is being turned.
Then pass a 2mm reamer or 2mm drill bit through the roller to remove any rust in there and then clean it out with a pipe cleaner dipped in alcohol. Paper up the screw starting with 500 grit to remove the rust and finish with 1200 grit to give it a mirror finish. Also tidy up the head if it has been damaged by using a fine file, then 500 grit followed by 1200 grit and if you want, burnish it to a mirror finish.
Then pass a 2mm reamer or 2mm drill bit through the roller to remove any rust in there and then clean it out with a pipe cleaner dipped in alcohol. Paper up the screw starting with 500 grit to remove the rust and finish with 1200 grit to give it a mirror finish. Also tidy up the head if it has been damaged by using a fine file, then 500 grit followed by 1200 grit and if you want, burnish it to a mirror finish.
In addition to all of the above; if you're lucky there's frequently a small gap between the ends (or one end) of the roller and the key it fits in. If so, after having soaked and soaked and wiggled carefully and soaked you might try taking something like the butt of an old reed and trying to push (if you cut the reed's butt off you can use that to gently tap at the end of the roller in an axial direction with a small hammer) the roller back and forth on its axle. There's unlikely to be much more than a millimeter or so for movement- but if you can get any movement at all back and forth it'll enhance the effectiveness of the penetrating fluid immensely.
Tapping at it with a bit of metal- such as a screwdriver tip- will probably solve the problem immediately as you'll almost certainly shatter or badly chip the roller on tap number two...
Good luck.
(Should there be a appreciable gap- say a full mm- you can frequently tap the roller to the key on the threaded end of the axle rod, loosen the rod the quarter turn or so until the roller comes up against the other side of the key... and then tap and repeat until the rod comes right out or the roller loosens up enough to turn the rod right out normally. Do all the soaking ETC first and don't get impatient and try to rush things. If it doesn't seem to be moving with reasonable force "soak and wait some more..." If you bugger up the end of the rod you're toast; you'll have to start cutting things and then replacing things- not the end of the world, but a pain.)
Tapping at it with a bit of metal- such as a screwdriver tip- will probably solve the problem immediately as you'll almost certainly shatter or badly chip the roller on tap number two...
Good luck.
(Should there be a appreciable gap- say a full mm- you can frequently tap the roller to the key on the threaded end of the axle rod, loosen the rod the quarter turn or so until the roller comes up against the other side of the key... and then tap and repeat until the rod comes right out or the roller loosens up enough to turn the rod right out normally. Do all the soaking ETC first and don't get impatient and try to rush things. If it doesn't seem to be moving with reasonable force "soak and wait some more..." If you bugger up the end of the rod you're toast; you'll have to start cutting things and then replacing things- not the end of the world, but a pain.)
...but just because you are inexperienced in removing rollers does not imply that you don't know the importance of using a screw driver with a proper fit. I have fixed frozen rollers in the past using WD-40ish stuff and 0000 steel wool on the rod and gently on the inside of the roller with good results. Not attempting to argue with any of the expert advice above, but fixing a frozen roller isn't rocket science or brain surgery (not sure why brain surgery is always used as an example, as the are plenty of other equally complicated and certainly more intellectually challenging tasks but so be it).
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remove rod, file off rust (fine file), then spin for a while in fine sandpaper (like 4-600 grit) . Roll some fine sandpaper inside the roller, spin for a while, then clean both roller and rod, oil, replace, enjoy...
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