[gmcninch]

Hi,

I just bought a new mouthpiece for my tenor and I seem to squeak and chirp a fair amount playing it.

I've been playing "sporadically" for a long time. Most recently, I've been playing quite a bit since this past summer, though I had more-or-less put the horn down for several years before that. (I'm finding it hard to describe how much playing experience I have -- not too huge an amount, but I wouldn't call myself a beginner.)

I have been playing on a Selmer C*.

I just bought a Jody Jazz HR* 6*, and it is on this mouthpiece that I find that I'm squeaking a fair amount.

• I know that the HR* has a bigger tip opening.
• I've played on a number of different reeds. -- I've been told that possibly some of my reeds are "shaped" to the old mouthpiece and thus may not sit smoothly on the new one. Anyhow, the problem definitely gets better with some reeds, but doesn't seem to ever vanish completely. (I have some Rico Jazz Select 2H's that I've had for a couple months, and some newer La Voz mediums).
• Using the same set of reeds, I don't get the squeaks on the Selmer mouthpiece.
• mainly the squeaks happen in the upper register (I think this is not surprising). And not while playing longer tones.
• I have a Rousseau JDX4 (that I don't really love -- not sure why I bought it 10 years or so ago) on which I *don't* squeak and chirp as I do on the new Jody Jazz piece. [Though I'll admit I haven't tested this mouthpiece as extensively in the last few days -- maybe I just got lucky.
  But I did play it with several different reeds].
• I was told to try a "seal test" -- to close the reed onto the tip of the mouthpiece by inhaling, and pull the mouthpiece out of my mouth. I did this with the new mouthpiece, and it did stay "sealed" for a second and then "pop" as the reed pulled off, which I think means it "passed" the test.

I guess what I wonder is: should I *expect* there to be a learning curve after getting a new mouthpiece? Maybe my embouchure is just somehow not well-developed enough, or I have some bad habit that needs to be broken...

Or maybe a better thing to ask: how *much* of a learning curve should I expect? I'm guess what I'm fishing for in part is whether I should return the mouthpiece (I've only had it a few days).

I should add that I'm sure that the Jody Jazz HR* is a fine mouthpiece (outside of the squeaks, I like the sound I'm getting); I'm just wondering if it is possible that it is somehow not compatible with me... or at least: not compatible with me at this stage of my development as a player.

Thanks in advance for any help!
(And: hopefully I posted this in a reasonable forum -- I'm new to SOTW and wasn't completely sure to which subfform I ought to post...)

-g

 

[bruce bailey]

First place to look is the reed. If you were using a #4 on the C*, then the Jody would probably need a #2 and a half for a start. Is the ligature holding the reed tightly? the reed needs to be evenly aligned on the mouthpiece too. I suspect the reed strength as the more open mouthpiece would need a lighter reed.
the C* is a .071" tip and the JJ 6* is a .095" tip which is a very large jump.

 

[bandmommy]

Out of curiosity...
Since I have never tried the Jody Jazz mouthpieces, but do play a C*, could there be a difference in the shape/profile of the beak that could be causing an issue with how much you are taking in and getting a good 'seal' around the piece?

 

[MojoBari]

Start with reading the article written by Paul Coats to make sure your embouchure fundamentals are correct. He has other good articles on mouthpieces too.

http://www.saxontheweb.net/Learning/tone_production.html

 

[gmcninch]

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for your response!

I just played this morning and am feeling a lot better about the piece now.

Your suggestion about reeds sounds like a good one, but I already play on fairly soft reeds I think (I have some Rico Jazz Select 2H's -- though those are getting older now -- and some newer La Voz mediums). I'm having more luck on the Jody with reeds that I *haven't* played much on the older mouthpiece.

Maybe I'll get some softer reeds (Rico 2's? -- they are easy for me to get at a shop down the street) and give that a try.


You wrote:

>>> the C* is a .071" tip and the JJ 6* is a .095" tip which is a very large jump.

Maybe I should have gone for the JJ HR* 5* (with I think an .085" tip) instead?

 

[bruce bailey]

I think you will be OK on the 6*. I use a .095" on tenor and it is actually a bit more closed than what many prefer. .105" seems to be a popular tip so you are in the ballpark. Experiment with taking more or less mouthpiece in your mouth and see what happens. I think you are just focused on the old C* which is a fairly tepid mouthpiece and doesn't require a lot of guts to play. Keep at it and it will work for the Jody.

 

[AndyB1970]

Interesting, I am having exactly the same issue albeit for a different mouthpiece.

When I use a Vandoren V16 T6 mouthpiece (.098") I squeak like mad, tried using different reeds (including brands), but my main preference is RJS 2M or RJS 2H unfiled. When I try either a Vandoren V16 T7 (.105"), a PPT 7*, an Otto Link 7* or a Phil Barone Vintage 7* the sqeaking stops. I also have better luck with some reeds but the squeal never goes away on the T6.

Like you too, the squeaking isn't on long tones, is on the higher register etc, on short stabby notes. I have spent a lot of time over the last few days trying less/more mouthpiece, careful adjustment on reed and ligature(s), trying different strength reeds (2M, 2H and 3S, can't play harder reeds), but nothing stops the squeaks. My tutor reckons it is an embouchure issue, and it does appear to be this as I've tried several brands of reeds (albeit slightly used reeds), ligatures etc so the only common factor left is me Personally I would like to use a 7 opening as I find this gives more control over intonation and sound, but maybe I'll have to continue with the T7 as it at least stops the squeaks.

So, I wonder what would happen if you tried a slightly larger opening, would the squeaking stop, or this just working around the problem?

Note: I've been playing for around 3 years, and intermediate at best.

 

[Grumps]

Sometimes, no matter how bad we want a certain mouthpiece to be the right one for us, it ain't. That's when you send it back or re-sell it and keep looking.

 

[DanPerezSax]

Your embouchure is too tight, either from tension in the lips or pressure from the jaw, or you're not taking in enough mouthpiece. I bet the facing on that JJ is much longer than the C*. Also the whole response curve of the JJ will be completely different from the C*. It will be much more responsive but also require a different tongue/lip/jaw placement because it is much more open than the Selmer, but it is also not designed to be as restrictive as the C*.

Do long tones for a couple weeks and focus on taking in the right amount of mouthpiece so your lip touches the reed right where it separates from the facing, and also focus on relaxing your embouchure. You may have to push in more than you're used to, but that's ok.

 

[gmcninch]

@DanPerez: Thanks for your suggestions! You wrote:

>> You may have to push in more than you're used to, but that's ok.

Huh. With the Selmer C* I have to push in quite far these days; much less so with the JJ, it seems. (Something I read some time back led me to expect that, but maybe it is odd?)

But I think that you and Bruce are correct, I just need to give it some time and practice...

Thanks, everyone!

 

[collegestationsax]

If you have to push in more with the c* than on the hr*, you are probably biting. I find that when i switch from my selmer d to my dv 7*, I actually push in more because my jazz embouchure is much more relaxed that my classical. You probably have to push in farther with the c* now because you are conforming to the much more relaxed embouchure needed for the jody jazz. Try setting the jj to where your c* normally is and adjusting your embouchure to be in tune with the mouthpiece placement. Also make sure you take in the mp to the point where the reed touches the rails. If you don't, you have to bite on the reed to get a seal where the reed is slightly off of the rails causing you to squeak and tune sharp.

 

[Grumps]

...I just need to give it some time and practice...

Did you buy it on approval, new with a trial period? If so, you might want to give it a certain window of opportunity to work for you. Just because this mouthpiece might work for others and it may be something you desire, don't get stuck with it should it not work out. There are so many other mouthpieces out there, if you really need to switch at this point in your playing.

 

[Carl H.]

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for your response!

I just played this morning and am feeling a lot better about the piece now.

Your suggestion about reeds sounds like a good one, but I already play on fairly soft reeds I think (I have some Rico Jazz Select 2H's -- though those are getting older now -- and some newer La Voz mediums). I'm having more luck on the Jody with reeds that I *haven't* played much on the older mouthpiece.

Maybe I'll get some softer reeds (Rico 2's? -- they are easy for me to get at a shop down the street) and give that a try.

You wrote:

>>> the C* is a .071" tip and the JJ 6* is a .095" tip which is a very large jump.

Maybe I should have gone for the JJ HR* 5* (with I think an .085" tip) instead?

Get some new reeds and tell us what happens.

 

[gmcninch]

You probably have to push in farther with the c* now because you are conforming to the much more relaxed embouchure needed for the jody jazz.

Sorry; I meant that for a while now I have had to push the Selmer C* mouthpiece *quite* far in, just in general -- nothing to do with the new mouthpiece. That has been true since this summer, at least. (Which is when I resumed playing more-or-less daily, after a long pause in playing..)

 

[SveinJo]

... I already play on fairly soft reeds I think (I have some Rico Jazz Select 2H's -- though those are getting older now -- and some newer La Voz mediums). I'm having more luck on the Jody with reeds that I *haven't* played much on the older mouthpiece.

Maybe I'll get some softer reeds (Rico 2's? -- they are easy for me to get at a shop down the street) and give that a try.

You wrote:

>>> the C* is a .071" tip and the JJ 6* is a .095" tip which is a very large jump.

Maybe I should have gone for the JJ HR* 5* (with I think an .085" tip) instead?

Eh ... no. A softer reed is more prone to squeak. The JJ HR is very free-blowing and can take much harder reed than you expect. If you play Rico, at least get a 3 (that is what I used on a JJ 7*).

 

[DanPerezSax]

If you're always biting when you play, you're using a reed that's too hard. The biting style doesn't work with an appropriate reed because an appropriate reed would be closed off all the time from the biting. If you're squeaking from biting, you need to practice not biting and move down a reed strength or two.