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Discussion Starter #1
here it is guys.

there are only 12 notes. then they repeat.
C C# D Eb E F F# G Ab A Bb B repeat C
these are all 1/2 step apart called a chromatic scale

the major scale is awkward mathmaticaly
W W H W W W H
C D E F G A B C
but sounds "normal"

eventually, you'll need to know all 12 keys and all the scales pertinent to each...but here's the shortcut to "comprehending" which is the first real hurdle.
Reason: you have to recognize 3rds, 5ths ect... to read a chord spelling...inversely when someone calls out a chord, you have to know what notes are in it. This is the foundation to that ability.

instead of starting on the hopscotch major scale, look at it mathmaticly...because you already deal in mathmatics everyday with money and measures and such. Transfer that ability to this.

so:
start with the whole tone scale...there are only 2 of them
C D E F# G# A# (C)
C# D# F G A B (C#)

the interval between each/all notes is 1 whole step (two 1/2 steps).
(play C [skip C#] play D...ect...)

by learning these 2 scales, you've learned all 12 because 6 X 2 = 12

next add another 1/2 step between intervals. three 1/2 steps between intervals
(play C [skip C#/D] play Eb...ect...)
C Eb F# A
C# E G Bb
D F Ab B

there are only 3 of these because 4 X 3 = 12

The key is to listen to these patterns and absorb it by ear til you recognize these like you do the words in your native spoken language. Write it out, but the main thing is to get it in your ear.

so far the only thing you have to comprehend at this point is the concept that:
A. there are only 12 notes...no more.
B. you can count by:
1's
1 2 3 4 5...
by 2's
2 4 6 8...
by 3's
3 6 9 12 ...

and by grasping this theoretical concept, you can trust that it's possible to count by 4's, 5's ect...without actually knowing the particulars...but you HAVE the concept.

Chromatic scale.
look at it as the full range of possibilities.
everything you do after that is merely a pattern placed over the range of possibilities. mentally extend (repeat the notes) the chromatic scale into a big empty palette like a piano keyboard layout.

Major scale
we dabble here for a second because tradition dictates our language of the structure.
Understanding that the pattern is W W H W W W H, replace the letters with numbers (degrees of the scale)

C D E F G A B (C)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

and each degree has yet another name applied to it based from the root.

now go back to the chromatic scale

C-octave
B-Major 7th (M7)
Bb-dominant 7th (b7)
A- 6th
Ab/G#-raised 5th/b6th (+5)
G-5th
F#-raised 4th/b5 (+4)
F-4th (sus4)
E-Major 3rd (3)
Eb-minor 3rd (b3)
D-Major 2nd (M2)
C#-minor 2nd (m2)
C-root

# means go up 1/2 step
b means go down 1/2 step
+ means raise the specifc note 1/2 step
M means "normal"
m means drop the specific note 1/2 step
augment means expand the distance
diminish means shrink the distance

go back to the major scale
C D E F G A B C

we build chords by skipping notes...the tension created by the skipped notes vs. the sounded notes are what give us the "colors" of the sound.
a "normal chord" is
1 3 5 7
C E G B

the upper structures are made by taking the notes you skipped and using them above the normal range.
the 2nd becomes the 9th
4th becomes the 11th
6th becomes the 13th
C D E G A B C

so a C13 is spelled
C E G B D F A

same notes used differently.
A C13 chord is only the major scale expanded over 2 octaves

Now go back to the original concept of attacking the chromatic scale by playing mathmatically understandable and balanced intervals...which is why (after chromatic 1/2 steps) we start with the whole tones...it skips every other note leaving each sounded note as a mathmatically reasonable idea...each note being exactly one whole step apart ...different from the church/traditional starting point of Major scale, but logicly easier.

The point is the traditional approach assumes you know M3rd from m3rd in all keys and is the hurdle that kills most folks right out of the gate.

I want you to understand intervals first. Once you have that, the rest falls into place.

whole tone scales (only 2 because starting on any other note falls into either one or the other of these scales...by learning 2, you know all 12)
C D E F# G# A# (C)
C# D# F G A B (C#)

extend them the full range of the horn, and get to where I can yell out any note, and you can fall into the proper scale effortlessly.

Now back to the chromatic scale.
look at the second thing.
play C
skip 2(C# & D)
play Eb
skip 2 (E & F)
Play F#
skip 2 (G & G#)
play A

C Eb F# A
these are all m3rd intervals between notes.
there are only 3 of these "scales" (4 X 3 - 12)
C Eb F# A
C# E G Bb
D F Ab B

(then Eb is a repeat of the first form...ect...)

this is a diminished tetrad

diad means 2 notes
triad means 3 notes
tetrad means 4 notes
pentad is 5 notes
sextad is 6 notes
septad is 7 notes

by learning
C Eb F# A
you've learned
C dim,
Eb dim,
F# dim, and
A dim.

more on this later...just grab the form and concept for now...and memorize the m3rd intervals from these patterns...all the way up and down the range of the horn.

back to the chromatic.
next interval is Major 3rds.
play C
(skip3 C# D Eb)
play E
(skip F F# G)
play G#

C E G# (C)
major 3rds.

where this is all heading is:
when I say motorcycle, you think Triumph/BSA/Norton/BMW/HD/Hondamahazuki ect...

when I say WW II
you think Hitler/D-Day/Japan/BIG Bomb ect...

same thing in music... one thought will immediately generate a doz. others related. this is the "magic process" in improvization.

C E G# (C) are M3rd intervals apart.

C E G is a M triad.
C E G# is an augmented because you raise the 5th.
by learning this one item, you've learned
C+
E+
G#+ chords.

now look at C E G#
it's also contained in the original whole tone scale
C D E F# G# A# (C)
so whole tones are related to augmented chords

there are 4 of these

C E G#
C# F A
D F# A#
Eb G B

3 X 4 = 12
by learning these 4 forms, you've learned all 12 augmented chords, and all 12 M3rd intervals.

now you can instantly recognize all major or minor basic chords by applying either the Maj or min interval patterns you've memorized,..even tho you haven't yet dabbled in all 12 keys...that has to be done at some point, but it can wait a bit yet. You know Maj and min intervals.

(disclaimer: this doesn't come overnight, no one expects it to)

there is really no such thing as a teaching process...there is only a learning process. the "teacher" can only lay it out, it's up to the "student" to pick it up and internalize it.

4ths.
(ascending)
C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb/F# B E A D G (C)

notice if you do
C F Bb
then instead of playing that next Eb up, drop it down an octave then play up
Eb Ab Db
drop the Gb down an octave then play up
F# B E
drop down...
A D G

same notes but by doing this the first note in each series spells out a diminished (C Eb F# A).
This is the concept of patterns over patterns,

now do 4th intervals ascending by chromatics
C F
C# F#
D G
Eb Ab
E A
F Bb
F# B
G C
ect...

do ascending 4ths dropping down by chromatics
C F
B E
Bb Eb
A E
ect

do ascending 4ths followed by descending 4ths over ascending chromatics
C F
F# C#
D G
Ab Eb
E A
Bb F
ect...

patterns over patterns.

next interval is tri-tones or b5ths (+4ths)
C [c# d eb e f] F# [g ab a bb b] C
splits the octave exactly in half.
I call it the "which way did they go" interval
notice tri-tones are also contained in the whole tone scale
C D E F# G# A# C
so tri-tones are related to whole tones, augmenteds and thus Major 3rds.

If you call that F an 11th instead of the 4th...you got raised 11ths.
(remember the mc=Triumph/BSA/HD/BMW thing)

C F# C
C# G C#
D Ab D
Eb A Eb
E Bb E
F B F
F# C F#

STOP. notice that at this point the whole thing just inverts on itself.

because the next interval 5ths is merely an inverted 4th.
C up to F is a 4th interval
C down to F is a 5th interval

at this point go back and look at that circle of 5ths key signature thing.
flats= C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb
sharps= C G D A E B F#

one direction is 5ths...the other direction is 4ths. but they over lap at Gb/F# and you can fudge a spot or two either way as in Db=C# or Ab=G#
while you're dabbling with these 5ths...cememt the key signature circle of 5ths concept in there reeeaaalllll goooooood...it's important.

OK. 5th intervals are
C G D A E B F# C# G#/Ab Eb Bb F (C)

there's always that crossover point where sharps turn into flats because...
just because.

C G
C# G#
D A
Eb Bb
E B
F C
F# C#
G D
Ab Eb
A E
Bb F
B F#
(C)

do (make up) some patterns over patterns to grasp these 5ths.

+5ths

C to G# is a raised 5th
G#/Ab to C is a M3rd interval

whole tone scale
C d e f# G# a# (C)

raised 5ths (augmented 5ths) related to whole tones, M3rds
C G# E (C)
inverted augmented triad ( C E G#)

C G# E (C)
C# A F (C#)
D A# F# (D)
Eb B G (Eb)

6ths
C up to A is a 6th
A up to C is a min 3rd interval
this is what they mean when they say the relative minor of the key of C is Am (A-)
(-means minor)
more on that later

notice C to A (6th) is contained in the dim tetrad
C Eb F# A
invert the dim tetrad and you have ascending 6ths
C A F# Eb
C# Bb G E
D B Ab F

b7ths (dominant 7ths)
C to Bb
dom 7th is one whole step below the octave.
thus related to whole tones

M7ths
C to B
1/2 step below octave
M7ths are back to the original chromatic scale.

when you did the original couple of things (up to tri-tones), you were already doing the last few things only inverted. The reality is you only had to do a few fresh excercises then comprehend the concept of how things invert back on itself.

That in a nutshell is the language and mathmatics of it.

Major scale/Modes

W W H W W W H
C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do
Do, a deer, a female deer
Joy to the world

W W H W W W H patten over the spectrum of possibilities...start on any chromatic note (key), but it's still the same sounding pattern.

This is where you learn the Major scales in all keys (on your own) and collect all that crap from other "normal" books in your collection.

Major vs. minor is all about the 3rd...which is why we started with whole tone/M3 and dim/m3rd) so you can ID that note quickly

Major chord is
1 3 5 M7
C E G B
the full color of this rascal (Joe Viola/Berklee) is: C E G B D F# A (more on that later)
1 3 5 M7 9 #11 13
May sound unusual, but let your ears absord fresh thoughts

Church Modes
start on the root, and it's Major (M7)
C d E f G a B C

construct a scale starting on the second degree, and it's a minor, called a Dorian Mode
D E F G A B C D
1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8

start on the 3rd it's minor called Phrygian
E F G A B C D E
1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8

start on the 4th it's Major called Lydian
F G A B C D E F
1 2 3 #4 5 6 M7 8

start on the 5th it's Major called Mixolydian
G A B C D E F G
1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 8

start on the 6th, its the natural minor (A is a m3rd below the octave/root) mode is Aeolian
A B C D E F G A
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8

start on the 7th and it's diminished called Locrian...(Triad only ... doesn't include the bb7 normally used to complete the though
t...full dim would be
B D F Ab (1 b3 b5 bb7)
...leaving the A natural(b7th)leaves us with a half dim
(1 b3 b5 b7)
B C D E F G A B
1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 8

if it weren't for that hop-scotch W W H W W W H pattern, we wouldn't have to deal with this...but this is the hand we're dealt...and what separates us from the animals...

the whole point is using those notes readily recognized in the C Maj scale, but using different starting points, that same scale turns into a whole rainbow of colors. What you want to do is be able to function from all sorts of perspectives...you see a rock, and you can anchor a boat with it, use it as a pillow, throw it as a weapon, build a shelter with it,
study it for chemistry/age, race it down a hill, polish it to seduce women, ect...it's all the same rock...just different perspectives.

Philosophy and Science
"For what does it profit a man if he should gain the whole world but lose his soul"

"what good is it to do know this gobble-de-gook...when the reality is you're sitting amongst a handful of drunks busking for pennies at some corner dive?"

You may have all the knowledge in the world under control, but there's few who take that journey with you to share in your victory...far better to play fun "money notes" in functional communication than to be the Wizard of Oz in pretentious isolation. Walking into a bank to get a loan with a bag full-o-boast & chops don't secure that loan in the real
world.

But...here's the forms and full colors of each:

Major
C E G
full color
1 3 5 M7 9 #11 13
C E G B D F# A

minor
C Eb G
full color
1 b3 5 M7 9 13
C Eb G B D A

dom 7th
C E G Bb
full color
1 3 5 b7 b9 9 #$9 11 #11 b13 13
C E G Bb Db D D# F F# Ab A

min 7th
C Eb G Bb
full color
1 b3 5 b7 9 11
C Eb G Bb D F

min 7th(b5)
C Eb Gb Bb
full color
1 b3 b5 b7 b9 9 11 b13
C Eb Gb Bb Db D F Ab

dim 7th (full dim)
C Eb Gb Bbb(A)
full color
1 b3 b5 bb7 M7 9 11 b13
C Eb Gb A B D F Ab
[putting these 2 dim scales together makes a W step/H step scale...
C D Eb F F# Ab A B]

After all's said and done, the best practice is to learn tunes and grab licks with your ear...it's a audial language that transfers thoughts and emotions...being literate in the written math/science is a huge advantage over those who ain't...but it still comes down to funneling all that into a useful form that is transferable to folks who haven't made that
journey...the object is to give them an ecapist moment in exchange for the transfer their money into your pocket...and of course the joy of art for art's sake...beyond that is frivilous egotism...unless you just like to run for the adrenline rush...but don't think for a moment it means anything.

Nobility is a self induced state transfered by voodoo hypnotism to weak minds who crave idols ...you still have to wipe your chin when you slobber...remember that...it will be the biggest challange you encounter.

...and the world is full of hustlers and ho's.
watch where you step.
 

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Thanks again, Modre. This is still one of my favorite-ever SOTW posts. I'm glad you posted it here again. I had a link set up to it on the old board for a while...I wonder where it went. Anyway, thanks for sharing this stuff. It has really helped me a lot.
 

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Thanks!

Thanks for your effort in explaining this, it's complicated but the more I read it
over time the more I grasp the concept. I wondered how one plays a chord on the sax!

Cheers,

Anton.
 

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I think I'm going to lay all this out on a fold-out wallet-sized card (similar to those big city maps they sell) with an attractive laminated cover. On one side will be Hunter S. Thompson's quote:
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench,
a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free,
and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side.


and on the other side Duke Ellington's:
If it sounds good – it is good.

How many here would buy one? How about if it included a slobber bib?
modre, what kind of royalty would you want per card? Are you still here? You haven't posted in over 2 years.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
good to see it go to good use

Hi guyz, I haven't been around for a while, but as happenstance would have it, I ran across this by accident today. I'm tickled to see it put to good use...thanks Harri, and thanks Troy...let's all hope this seed sprouts a healthy crop for years to come.

my best to all. let these thoughts open the secret doors.

modre.
 

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Hi modre, i was just thinking about you the other day, nothing in particular and no special reason, just wondering where you'd gone. Nice to hear from you. Nice bit of writing there too.
 

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Is there a bound version of all this information? All the scales, etc? Maybe a good program for me to print my own? Something so I can spend more time practicing my sax, not my writing?

Great information by the way, I like to begin each practice with some long tones and scales, and when my chops were better, into some music...
 

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Love to see it broken down!:)

GOOD JOB
 

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Geez man! where have you been all my life?
You enlightened my path big time, this is the most amazing and resuming post I've ever seen about music!
Thanks a lot!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I just brisked thru this... apparently someone has been fudging thru forum rebuilds and/or whatever...there are faults that I didn't write. here's the original again. anyone finds mistakes point them out for others.
here's from the horse's mouth:

spoon-fed music lesson
here it is guys.

there are only 12 notes. then they repeat.
C C# D Eb E F F# G Ab A Bb B repeat C
these are all 1/2 step apart called a chromatic scale

the major scale is awkward mathmaticaly
W= whole step
H= half step

W W H W W W H
C D E F G A B C
but sounds "normal"

eventually, you'll need to know all 12 keys and all the scales pertinent to each...but here's the shortcut to "comprehending" which is the first real hurdle.
Reason: you have to recognize 3rds, 5ths ect... to read a chord spelling...inversely when someone calls out a chord, you have to know what notes are in it. This is the foundation to that ability.

instead of starting on the hopscotch major scale, look at it mathmaticly...because you already deal in mathmatics everyday with money and measures and such. Transfer that ability to this.

so:
start with the whole tone scale...there are only 2 of them
C D E F# G# A# (C)
C# D# F G A B (C#)

the interval between each/all notes is 1 whole step (two 1/2 steps).
(play C [skip C#] play D...ect...)

by learning these 2 scales, you've learned all 12 because 6 X 2 = 12

next add another 1/2 step between intervals. three 1/2 steps between intervals
(play C [skip C#/D] play Eb...ect...)
C Eb F# A
C# E G Bb
D F Ab B

there are only 3 of these because 4 X 3 = 12

The key is to listen to these patterns and absorb it by ear til you recognize these like you do the words in your native spoken language. Write it out, but the main thing is to get it in your ear.

so far the only thing you have to comprehend at this point is the concept that:
A. there are only 12 notes...no more.
B. you can count by:
1's
1 2 3 4 5...
by 2's
2 4 6 8...
by 3's
3 6 9 12 ...

and by grasping this theoretical concept, you can trust that it's possible to count by 4's, 5's ect...without actually knowing the particulars...but you HAVE the concept.

Chromatic scale.
look at it as the full range of possibilities.
everything you do after that is merely a pattern placed over the range of possibilities. mentally extend (repeat the notes) the chromatic scale into a big empty palette like a piano keyboard layout.

Major scale
we dabble here for a second because tradition dictates our language of the structure.
Understanding that the pattern is W W H W W W H, replace the letters with numbers (degrees of the scale)

C D E F G A B (C)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

and each degree has yet another name applied to it based from the root.

C-octave
B-Major 7th (M7)
Bb-dominant 7th (b7)
A- 6th
Ab/G#-raised 5th/b6th (+5)
G-5th
F#-raised 4th/b5 (+4)
F-4th (sus4)
E-Major 3rd (3)
Eb-minor 3rd (b3)
D-Major 2nd (M2)
C#-minor 2nd (m2)
C-root

# means "sharp" - go up 1/2 step
b means "flat" = go down 1/2 step (could be b3/b7/b9/b13 ect)
+ means augmented or raise the specifc note 1/2 step
M means Major or "normal"
m means minor - drop the specific note 1/2 step but usually refers to the 3rd

augment means expand the distance
diminish means shrink the distance

go back to the major scale
C D E F G A B C

we build chords by skipping notes...the tension created by the skipped notes vs. the sounded notes are what give us the "colors" of the sound.
a Major "normal chord" is
1 3 5 7
C E G B

the upper structures are made by taking the notes you skipped and using them above the normal range.
the 2nd becomes the 9th
4th becomes the 11th
6th becomes the 13th
C D E F G A B C

so a C13 is spelled
C E G B D F A

same notes used differently.
A C13 chord is only the major scale expanded over 2 octaves

Now go back to the original concept of attacking the chromatic scale by playing mathmatically understandable and balanced intervals...which is why (after chromatic 1/2 steps) we start with the whole tones...it skips every other note leaving each sounded note as a mathmatically reasonable idea...each note being exactly one whole step apart ...different from the church/traditional starting point of Major scale, but logicly easier.

The point is the traditional approach assumes you know M3rd from m3rd in all keys and is the hurdle that kills most folks right out of the gate.

I want you to understand intervals first. Once you have that, the rest falls into place.

whole tone scales (only 2 because starting on any other note falls into either one or the other of these scales...by learning 2, you know all 12)
C D E F# G# A# (C)
C# D# F G A B (C#)

extend them the full range of the instrument, and get to where I can yell out any note, and you can fall into the proper scale effortlessly.

Now back to the chromatic scale.
look at the second thing.
play C
skip 2(C#/D)
play Eb
skip 2 (E/F)
Play F#
skip 2 (G/G#)
play A

C Eb F# A
these are all m3rd intervals between notes.
there are only 3 of these "scales" (4 X 3 - 12)
C Eb F# A
C# E G Bb
D F Ab B
(Eb is a repeat of the first form...ect...)

this is called a diminished tetrad

diad means 2 notes
triad means 3 notes
tetrad means 4 notes
pentad is 5 notes
sextad is 6 notes
septad is 7 notes

by learning
C Eb F# A
you've learned 4 diminished tetrads
C dim,
Eb dim,
F# dim, and
A dim.

more on this later...just grab the form and concept for now...and memorize the m3rd intervals from these patterns...all the way up and down the range of the instrument.

back to the chromatic.
next interval is Major 3rds.
play C
(skip3 C# D Eb)
play E
(skip F F# G)
play G#

C E G# (C)
major 3rds.

where this is all heading is:
when I say motorcycle, you think Triumph/BSA/Norton/BMW/HD/Hondamahazuki ect...

when I say WW II
you think Hitler/D-Day/Japan/BIG Bomb ect...

same thing in music... one thought will immediately generate a doz. others related. this is the "magic process" in improvization.

C E G# (C) are M3rd intervals apart.

C E G is a M triad.
C E G# is an augmented because you raise the 5th.
by learning this one item, you've learned 3 augmented triads
C+
E+
G#+ chords.

now look at C E G#
it's also contained in the original whole tone scale
C D E F# G# A# (C)
so whole tones are related to augmented chords

there are 4 of these

C E G#
C# F A
D F# A#
Eb G B

3 X 4 = 12
by learning these 4 forms, you've learned all 12 augmented chords, and all 12 M3rd intervals.

now you can instantly recognize all Major or minor basic chords by applying either the Maj or min interval patterns you've memorized,..even tho you haven't yet dabbled in all 12 keys...that has to be done at some point, but it can wait a bit yet. You know Maj and min intervals.

(disclaimer: this doesn't come overnight, no one expects it to)

there is really no such thing as a teaching process...there is only a learning process. the "teacher" can only lay it out, it's up to the "student" to pick it up and internalize it.

4ths.
(ascending)
C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb/F# B E A D G (C)

notice if you do
C F Bb
then instead of playing that next Eb up, drop it down an octave then play up
Eb Ab Db
drop the Gb down an octave then play up
F# B E
drop down...
A D G

same notes but by doing this the first note in each series spells out a diminished tetrad (C Eb F# A).
This is the concept of patterns over patterns,

now do 4th intervals ascending by chromatics
C F
C# F#
D G
Eb Ab
E A
F Bb
F# B
G C
ect...

do ascending 4ths dropping down by chromatics
C F
B E
Bb Eb
A E
ect

do ascending 4ths followed by descending 4ths over ascending chromatics
C F
F# C#
D G
Ab Eb
E A
Bb F
ect...

patterns over patterns.

next interval is tri-tones or b5ths (+4ths)
C [c# d eb e f] F# [g ab a bb b] C
splits the octave exactly in half.
I call it the "which way did they go" interval
notice tri-tones are also contained in the whole tone scale
C D E F# G# A# C
so tri-tones are related to whole tones, augmenteds and thus Major 3rds.

If you call that F(#) an 11th instead of the 4th...you got raised 11ths.
(remember the mc=Triumph/BSA/HD/BMW thing)

C F# C
C# G C#
D Ab D
Eb A Eb
E Bb E
F B F
F# C F#

STOP. notice that at this point the whole thing just inverts on itself.

because the next interval 5ths is merely an inverted 4th.
C up to F is a 4th interval
C down to F is a 5th interval

at this point go back and look at that circle of 5ths key signature thing.
flats= C F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb
sharps= C G D A E B F#

one direction is 5ths...the other direction is 4ths. but they over lap at Gb/F# and you can fudge a spot or two either way as in Db=C# or Ab=G#
while you're dabbling with these 5ths...cememt the key signature circle of 5ths concept in there reeeaaalllll goooooood...it's important.

OK. 5th intervals are
C G D A E B F# C# G#/Ab Eb Bb F (C)

there's always that crossover point where sharps turn into flats because...well...just because.

C G
C# G#
D A
Eb Bb
E B
F C
F# C#
G D
Ab Eb
A E
Bb F
B F#
(C)

do (make up) some patterns over patterns to grasp these 5ths.

+5ths (augmented)

C to G# is a raised 5th
G#/Ab up to C is a M3rd interval

whole tone scale
C d e f# G# a# (C)

raised 5ths (augmented 5ths) related to whole tones, M3rds
C G# E (C)
inverted augmented triad ( C E G#)

C G# E (C)
C# A F (C#)
D A# F# (D)
Eb B G (Eb)

6ths
C up to A is a 6th
A up to C is a min 3rd interval
this is what they mean when they say the relative minor of the key of C is Am (A-)
( - means minor)
more on that later

notice C to A (6th) is contained in the dim tetrad
C Eb F# A
invert the dim tetrad and you have ascending 6ths
C A F# Eb
C# Bb G E
D B Ab F

b7ths (dominant 7ths)
C to Bb
dom 7th is one whole step below the octave.
thus related to whole tones

M7ths
C to B
1/2 step below octave
M7ths are back to the original chromatic scale.

when you did the original couple of things (up to tri-tones), you were already doing the last few things only inverted. The reality is you only had to do a few fresh excercises then comprehend the concept of how things invert back on itself.

That in a nutshell is the language and mathmatics of it.

Major scale/Modes

W W H W W W H
C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do
Do, a deer, a female deer
Joy to the world

W W H W W W H patten over the spectrum of possibilities...start on any chromatic note (key), but it's still the same sounding pattern.

This is where you learn the Major scales in all keys and collect all that crap from other "normal" books in your collection.

Major vs. minor is all about the 3rd...which is why we started with whole tone (M3/augmented) and dim (m3rd) so you can ID that note quickly

Major chord is
1 3 5 M7
C E G B
the full color of this rascal (Joe Viola/Berklee) is:
C E G B D F# A (more on that later)
1 3 5 M7 9 #11 13
that #11 may sound unusual at first, but let your ears absord fresh thoughts

Church Modes
start on the root, and it's Major (M7)
C d E f G a B C

construct a scale starting on the second degree, and it's a minor, called a Dorian Mode
D E F G A B C D
1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8

start on the 3rd it's minor called Phrygian
E F G A B C D E
1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8

start on the 4th it's Major called Lydian
F G A B C D E F
1 2 3 #4 5 6 M7 8

start on the 5th it's Major called Mixolydian
G A B C D E F G
1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 8

start on the 6th, its the natural minor (A is a m3rd below the octave/root) mode is Aeolian
A B C D E F G A
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8

start on the 7th and it's diminished called Locrian...
(Triad only ... doesn't include the bb7 normally used to complete the thought.
full dim would be
B D F Ab (1 b3 b5 bb7)
...leaving the A natural(b7th)leaves us with a half dim
(1 b3 b5 b7)
B C D E F G A B
1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 8

if it weren't for that hop-scotch W W H W W W H "normal" pattern, we wouldn't have to deal with this...but this is the hand we're dealt...and what separates us from the animals...

the whole point is using those notes readily recognized in the C Maj scale, but using different starting points, that same scale turns into a whole rainbow of colors. What you want to do is be able to function from all sorts of perspectives...you see a rock, and you can anchor a boat with it, use it as a pillow, throw it as a weapon, build a shelter with it,
study it for chemistry/age, race it down a hill, polish it to seduce women, ect...it's all the same rock...just different perspectives.

"For what does it profit a man if he should gain the whole world but lose his soul"

"what good is it to do know this gobble-de-gook...when the reality is you're sitting amongst a handful of drunks busking for pennies at some corner dive?"

You may have all the knowledge in the world under control, but there's few who take that journey with you to share in your victory...far better to play fun "money notes" in functional communication than to be the Wizard of Oz in pretentious isolation. Walking into a bank to get a loan with a bag full-o-boast and chops don't secure that loan in the real world.

But...here's the forms and full colors of each:

Major
C E G
full color
1 3 5 M7 9 #11 13
C E G B D F# A

minor
C Eb G
full color
1 b3 5 M7 9 13
C Eb G B D A

dom 7th
C E G Bb
full color
1 3 5 b7 b9 9 #$9 11 #11 b13 13
C E G Bb Db D D# F F# Ab A

min 7th
C Eb G Bb
full color
1 b3 5 b7 9 11
C Eb G Bb D F

min 7th(b5) (another name for a half-dim)
C Eb Gb Bb
full color
1 b3 b5 b7 b9 9 11 b13
C Eb Gb Bb Db D F Ab

dim 7th (full dim)
C Eb Gb Bbb(A)
full color
1 b3 b5 bb7 M7 9 11 b13
C Eb Gb A B D F Ab

putting 2 dim scales together makes a W step/H step scale...
C D Eb F F# Ab A B]

After all's said and done, the best practice is to learn tunes and grab licks with your ear...it's a audial language that transfers thoughts and emotions...being literate in the written math/science is a huge advantage over those who ain't...but it still comes down to funneling all that into a useful form that is transferable to folks who haven't shared that journey...the object is to give them an ecapist moment in exchange for the transfer their money into your pocket...and of course the joy of art for art's sake...beyond that is frivilous egotism...unless you just like to run for the adrenline rush...but don't think for a moment it means anything.

Nobility is a self induced state transfered by voodoo hypnotism to weak minds who crave idols ...you still have to wipe your chin when you slobber...remember that...it will be the biggest challange you encounter.

...and the world is full of hustlers and ho's.
watch where you step.
 

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Just found this from modre. Interersting and well worth learning.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I ran across these scale forms I wrote out 30 years ago.



(make the window wide and they'll appear side by side as intended)
 

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I've understood much of this lesson, and I will study it more. But I lost it when it reached the "full colors"--- as first mentioned here:

"Major chord is
1 3 5 M7
C E G B
the full color of this rascal (Joe Viola/Berklee) is:
C E G B D F# A (more on that later)
1 3 5 M7 9 #11 13
that #11 may sound unusual at first, but let your ears absord fresh thoughts ".

thanks
 
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