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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Yes, if in doubt something stronger that drywall. Much will depend on how close the joists are but we got a decent idea after an inch of sand in one area.

I doubt they will do much at all apart from internal HF damping and not needed to cover entirely.

Best to put in frames and suspend 2 inches away from ceiling and walls. Use acoustically transparent covering.

My second home studio control room: View attachment 108798
Very nice set up! I'm thinking I would just cover the whole ceiling in them. Not sure how I could suspend them but definitely could look into it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I dont know that rockwool will help much but put them together. The acoustic pannels are to control echo and to dampen sound. It appears your goal is to stop sound. Therefore, space will defeat the purpose.
Maybe I should just skip it all together. I was looking at those Corning 703 panels too that supposedly help with sound absorption. I guess I just am not understanding how sound works. Because if something supposedly "absorbs" sound then how would it not muffle it from outside? Not completely soundproof of course but I would think it would muffle it some wouldn't it?
 

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Maybe I should just skip it all together. I was looking at those Corning 703 panels too that supposedly help with sound absorption. I guess I just am not understanding how sound works. Because if something supposedly "absorbs" sound then how would it not muffle it from outside? Not completely soundproof of course but I would think it would muffle it some wouldn't it?
The wall treatments are controlling sound REFLECTING off the wall. Essentially, some of the sound energy is absorbed in the foam cones or rockwool fibers so it doesn't reflect back into the room. Yes, there is some diminution of sound transmitted out of the room. Anything that absorbs some energy will reduce the total sound pressure level inside the room which reduces how much is transmitted outside the room. However, two things make these treatments not very effective without the others. 1) The stuff stuck on the wall adds almost nothing to the mass of the wall, so the energy that reaches the interior wall surface from sound pressure inside the room will still excite vibration in that wall surface which will then still transmit through the wall structure to the outer wall as noise. 2) The stuff typically has to be at least 4" thick to capture (a fraction of) the lower frequencies that are the most prone to exciting structures and that diminish the least with distance. And of course if the room has all kinds of acoustic leaks, you can slather foam or rockwool all over the wall, but it's like leaving the door open. If you do want to do these surface treatments and try to signficantly reduce transmission, you need to cover every single surface and leave as little as possible uncovered. Now that's going to make the room REALLY dead and give it an unpleasant sound. Thats's why you see Pete's picture where he's got both reflective and non-reflective surfaces in the room. I'll point out that if you cover your ceiling, you won't be addressing paths like into the wall cavity - into the cavity above the ceiling. So you probably won't get much improvement by just covering your ceiling with soft stuff.

The point we're trying to make is that anti-reflective treatment is the LAST thing you get into when trying to cut down sound transmission, and it's not even really for that. But when people see "professional recording studio" they see Sonex foam cones and they think "okay, if I get some of that no one can hear me". Nope. What they're not seeing (and what outfits that sell this stuff to musicians without the technical background won't mention) are the double walls with staggered studs, double layers of extra thick sheetrock with all seams offset and sealed, double doors (in series, not side by side) of solid core with rubber seals all round and moving thresholds, segregated HVAC system all mounted on shock mounts, and the triple pane window between the control room and the studio that's 8" thick total. Oh yes, don't forget the floor slab that is poured separate from the building floor slab and the gap sealed with elastomeric sealer.

After you put all that in, THEN you come in and treat for reflection with the foam or rockwool stuff.

All that said, try some stuff. Blankets are easy and cheap and you probably already have some. Seal off any path for noise that you can imagine and see what happens. Buy a couple cheap sound level meters or download the apps for two phones, set up a loud sound source in the practice room and determine how much attenuation you get in the areas of concern. (Just put an electronic keyboard on an organ patch and tape down the keys for a C major chord from the lowest to the highest notes, measure sound pressure level in the practice room, then go walk around different areas of the house. Then change something about the room, repeat the measurements. Also take note of your subjective impressions.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
The wall treatments are controlling sound REFLECTING off the wall. Essentially, some of the sound energy is absorbed in the foam cones or rockwool fibers so it doesn't reflect back into the room. Yes, there is some diminution of sound transmitted out of the room. Anything that absorbs some energy will reduce the total sound pressure level inside the room which reduces how much is transmitted outside the room. However, two things make these treatments not very effective without the others. 1) The stuff stuck on the wall adds almost nothing to the mass of the wall, so the energy that reaches the interior wall surface from sound pressure inside the room will still excite vibration in that wall surface which will then still transmit through the wall structure to the outer wall as noise. 2) The stuff typically has to be at least 4" thick to capture (a fraction of) the lower frequencies that are the most prone to exciting structures and that diminish the least with distance. And of course if the room has all kinds of acoustic leaks, you can slather foam or rockwool all over the wall, but it's like leaving the door open. If you do want to do these surface treatments and try to signficantly reduce transmission, you need to cover every single surface and leave as little as possible uncovered. Now that's going to make the room REALLY dead and give it an unpleasant sound. Thats's why you see Pete's picture where he's got both reflective and non-reflective surfaces in the room. I'll point out that if you cover your ceiling, you won't be addressing paths like into the wall cavity - into the cavity above the ceiling. So you probably won't get much improvement by just covering your ceiling with soft stuff.

The point we're trying to make is that anti-reflective treatment is the LAST thing you get into when trying to cut down sound transmission, and it's not even really for that. But when people see "professional recording studio" they see Sonex foam cones and they think "okay, if I get some of that no one can hear me". Nope. What they're not seeing (and what outfits that sell this stuff to musicians without the technical background won't mention) are the double walls with staggered studs, double layers of extra thick sheetrock with all seams offset and sealed, double doors (in series, not side by side) of solid core with rubber seals all round and moving thresholds, segregated HVAC system all mounted on shock mounts, and the triple pane window between the control room and the studio that's 8" thick total. Oh yes, don't forget the floor slab that is poured separate from the building floor slab and the gap sealed with elastomeric sealer.

After you put all that in, THEN you come in and treat for reflection with the foam or rockwool stuff.

All that said, try some stuff. Blankets are easy and cheap and you probably already have some. Seal off any path for noise that you can imagine and see what happens. Buy a couple cheap sound level meters or download the apps for two phones, set up a loud sound source in the practice room and determine how much attenuation you get in the areas of concern. (Just put an electronic keyboard on an organ patch and tape down the keys for a C major chord from the lowest to the highest notes, measure sound pressure level in the practice room, then go walk around different areas of the house. Then change something about the room, repeat the measurements. Also take note of your subjective impressions.)
GREAT EXPLANATION! Thank you. Think I'm going to just have to ponder and maybe test some stuff out :D
 

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I was also thinking that once when I investigated a sound booth, I saw that there as tents that are used for interviewing or sound editing on sites. These are not sound proof but provide some good insulation. I thought of trying that out as the prices were more reasonable. Kind of like playing under a thick quilt (which I have also done in the past). The tent thing is basically that as far as I can see: a frame with a quilted thing draped over. If you also played on a piece of carpet...

I like the idea of this as it required no structural work and you sort of get your room in a room. Not sound proof but really takes off that edge.
 

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There really is a load of information onntuebweb on soundproofing and the concepts behind the practices. While you likely will not employ many of them you will understand your goals better and be able to steer in the right direction.

I personally decided that an effective schedule is the most effective method and it costs nothing...but everyone is different
 

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There really is a load of information onntuebweb on soundproofing and the concepts behind the practices. While you likely will not employ many of them you will understand your goals better and be able to steer in the right direction.

I personally decided that an effective schedule is the most effective method and it costs nothing...but everyone is different
I guess, as is the nature of the internet, it can be bewildering in terms of the amount of information. Its like when you look for material for teaching or learning music. There is too much and the quality is so uneven it can just put you off. When I looked with a view to doing something about volume, I felt that way.

My solution in the end was to ask a builder, when we were having some work done, what he thought could be done easily and quickly. Still a few hundred dollars though. And the advantage was that he was already here.
 

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You might want to try one of those partial enclosures that are made of sound absorbing materials.
I've gone into our walk-in closet to play while the wife is working from home. It's surprising how well being surrounded by clothes absorbs sound.

If you have a few bucks to spend there's this:

 

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I've gone into our walk-in closet to play while the wife is working from home. It's surprising how well being surrounded by clothes absorbs sound.
I used this too. Agree it is works well. Many years ago when living in row houses I used to hang bedding quilts between open wardrobe doors too. Everyone said it muffled the sound.

And it also points to how you could sort of make something very improvised in a basement with a thick rug and then if you had a box, type tent frame, hang some fabrics over it.
 

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I haven't posted here in years., I know stuff. Got tired of defending advice meant trying be helpful. It became tedious not satisfying. More as a player/teacher but it became tedious. This caught my eye as I've been there done that. Soundproof the room with layers of drywall spaced with insulation - 2 to three layers spaced. three layers spaced where needed. Thicker drywall not that more expensive and will help. No fancy soundproof insulation material needed. Problem becomes where the sound will not escape it creates an echo that is antithetical to what you want in a practice room.,,, as you want to develop your own sound aesthetic. Soundproof the room so you don't aggravate wife, kids, neighbors, etc. Then deaden the sound as much as possible inside so you can focus on the sound coming out of you with no reverberation. Take this advice as is. I'm done defending my truth on this forum..... welcome logical debate but rarely happened - why I'm absent. I hope i simplified things.
 

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The wall treatments are controlling sound REFLECTING off the wall. Essentially, some of the sound energy is absorbed in the foam cones or rockwool fibers so it doesn't reflect back into the room. Yes, there is some diminution of sound transmitted out of the room. Anything that absorbs some energy will reduce the total sound pressure level inside the room which reduces how much is transmitted outside the room. However, two things make these treatments not very effective without the others. 1) The stuff stuck on the wall adds almost nothing to the mass of the wall, so the energy that reaches the interior wall surface from sound pressure inside the room will still excite vibration in that wall surface which will then still transmit through the wall structure to the outer wall as noise. 2) The stuff typically has to be at least 4" thick to capture (a fraction of) the lower frequencies that are the most prone to exciting structures and that diminish the least with distance. And of course if the room has all kinds of acoustic leaks, you can slather foam or rockwool all over the wall, but it's like leaving the door open. If you do want to do these surface treatments and try to signficantly reduce transmission, you need to cover every single surface and leave as little as possible uncovered. Now that's going to make the room REALLY dead and give it an unpleasant sound. Thats's why you see Pete's picture where he's got both reflective and non-reflective surfaces in the room. I'll point out that if you cover your ceiling, you won't be addressing paths like into the wall cavity - into the cavity above the ceiling. So you probably won't get much improvement by just covering your ceiling with soft stuff.

The point we're trying to make is that anti-reflective treatment is the LAST thing you get into when trying to cut down sound transmission, and it's not even really for that. But when people see "professional recording studio" they see Sonex foam cones and they think "okay, if I get some of that no one can hear me". Nope. What they're not seeing (and what outfits that sell this stuff to musicians without the technical background won't mention) are the double walls with staggered studs, double layers of extra thick sheetrock with all seams offset and sealed, double doors (in series, not side by side) of solid core with rubber seals all round and moving thresholds, segregated HVAC system all mounted on shock mounts, and the triple pane window between the control room and the studio that's 8" thick total. Oh yes, don't forget the floor slab that is poured separate from the building floor slab and the gap sealed with elastomeric sealer.

After you put all that in, THEN you come in and treat for reflection with the foam or rockwool stuff.

All that said, try some stuff. Blankets are easy and cheap and you probably already have some. Seal off any path for noise that you can imagine and see what happens. Buy a couple cheap sound level meters or download the apps for two phones, set up a loud sound source in the practice room and determine how much attenuation you get in the areas of concern. (Just put an electronic keyboard on an organ patch and tape down the keys for a C major chord from the lowest to the highest notes, measure sound pressure level in the practice room, then go walk around different areas of the house. Then change something about the room, repeat the measurements. Also take note of your subjective impressions.)
I've learned quite a bit here, thanks OP for bringing this up. Every time I reread info on soundproofing, I learn more.

I ended up getting a whisperroom, myself, and put it in the garage. It's small, only 4x4', but I got a deal since I found someone selling it on craigslist, so I took a trip with my 98 Tacoma and made a d morning of it. I'd been looking for a while.
I put my cell phone outside the room with a decibel meter app which shows the max decibel value, and played my horn as loud as I could. Then I played in the whisperroom, and got a solid 10dB less, which is about 50% sounds reduction. My one has a window on the door, and even though it's double paned, I sense that's where most the sound gets out.

Here's something interesting I was reading about: Spring-loaded screw could be a cheaper form of soundproofing

From what I understand, these spring loaded screws help provide a gap in between, this reducing the transmission of noise. Curious as to some of your thoughts on this.
 

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I've learned quite a bit here, thanks OP for bringing this up. Every time I reread info on soundproofing, I learn more.

I ended up getting a whisperroom, myself, and put it in the garage. It's small, only 4x4', but I got a deal since I found someone selling it on craigslist, so I took a trip with my 98 Tacoma and made a d morning of it. I'd been looking for a while.
I put my cell phone outside the room with a decibel meter app which shows the max decibel value, and played my horn as loud as I could. Then I played in the whisperroom, and got a solid 10dB less, which is about 50% sounds reduction. My one has a window on the door, and even though it's double paned, I sense that's where most the sound gets out.

Here's something interesting I was reading about: Spring-loaded screw could be a cheaper form of soundproofing

From what I understand, these spring loaded screws help provide a gap in between, this reducing the transmission of noise. Curious as to some of your thoughts on this.
If I'm not mistaken 10dB is considerably more dampening thnt 50%. Each 3dB represents a halfing of the effective power of the sound. Thus 3dB = 50%, 6dB = 25%, 9dB = 12.5% (10dB = 10%??). Sounds like you have a very effective practice room.
 

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OP is moving out soon, isn't going to do any remodeling which means almost every idea here isn't going to work. However, I would try the rock wool material. It is used for both thermal and sound dampening. If the walk in closet method works (which is a really good idea) then the rock wool is the same idea. Keep the batts close together and use a simple friction fit method and it could be removed in minutes
 

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I split part of our house off and turned it into an apartment. Their stacked washer/drier is in the hallway, that connected their past of the house with ours. We live in an adobe house, which is excellent for containing sound. But the wall i built to separate the two dwellings was wood frame. So i could easily isolate where the sound was coming through.

Once i had covered that area with mass loaded vinyl and calked it, the sound was completely gone. I can easily hear them in the basement, but not in our living areas.
 

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In response to the many recommendations to "tightly screw an additional ceiling layer to the ceiling joists", I think this is the wrong way to go. The extra ceiling layer will act as a membrane and the hard connection will transmit the collected sound into the ceiling structure.

In my opinion, a better way would be to construct the additional ceiling layer with a sub-frame (so that it could be loaded with sand as Pete recommended, and hang this sub-frame with nylon cords (like climber's rope) down form the ceiling structure, but without touching the joists.
 

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OP is moving out soon, isn't going to do any remodeling which means almost every idea here isn't going to work. However, I would try the rock wool material. It is used for both thermal and sound dampening. If the walk in closet method works (which is a really good idea) then the rock wool is the same idea. Keep the batts close together and use a simple friction fit method and it could be removed in minutes
Thanks for keeping us grounded in reality. You're right, most of the construction ideas are a good thought exercise, but not realistic given the circumstances. As others have alluded to, I have also played in clothes closets in the past, and it's pretty darn effective. Doing something to a similar effect, without being surrounded in winter coats, would probably be good enough to not be heard 2 stories up.

Good luck, sunshinesax!
 
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