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That the tune is 14 bars long doesn't help with the confusion! Then it starts again on the third not of the melody, so it's a strange form. As for the chords, the way I think of it, it's mostly in concert D major with a sort of functioning "bridge" in G minor, but the melody suggests Bb major 7, same scale notes as a G minor 9th. What makes the song work (again IMO) is the attitude, the rhythmic approach and those "prissy" tight 16th notes in the fourth phrase. I think it's well worth working on, so I continue to practice and explore it daily.
 

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Guido, knowing you almost never play your alto, good job! I have a couple of suggestions, if I may, knowing you for "all these years" online.

First, it works well to hear this 3/4 time by imagining 123 123 123 for each measure. Dave Sanborn once said he hears all music in triplets. It's less obvious when the song is already in 3. The other thing is, although I didn't look at the sheet, the melody notes are mostly "tighter" with several shorter and closer together than you initially think. At least that is how I hear it.

Listen to the fourth melody phrase here:

didit da dah didit didit di dah da di dah, etc

Those didits are extremely tight.

I hope this helps a little.
Randy, your criticisms and suggestions are always welcome!

I agree with you:

I did not characterize the time well (usually 3/4 and 6/8 are better for me)

as for the melody, before making this recording I played it on the one by Cannobal you suggested but, when I started with the backing track, it came spontaneously like this: I will have to force myself to play it as it is written :)

Ciao
 

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I will have to force myself to play it as it is written :)
I almost never do! (As I can't read.) But this song is so foreign to me I thought it worth trying to get those tight parts right. I still don't remember them sometimes, and I have to listen again. Although I listened to most of the versions above, I still base mine on Cannonball, and apparently the track is based on it, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
i tried playing this song through, but frankly I don't understand it, particularly from a harmonic perspective. Would be interested to hear how others have approached improvising of the chords..
Totally agree, and I think that's one of the things that attracted me to it. My general approach, based on the way I hear music, is to subdivide songs into... hell, I'm just going to put it this way: "modal clusters". I try to find a scale that fits a block of harmony, and then do the same for the next section. Not a great option on this song, so I added in a dash of "never more than 1/2-step from the truth". In general, I try to find whatever part of the harmony seems to make it unique, and focus on that (to avoid too many roots). On this one, I tried to leap back to the melody any time I got into trouble.
 

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This tune defies the usual approach for playing over changes, such as Eric Marienthal's teachings on All The Things You Are. In a song like that, he suggests playing thorugh on just roots, then fifths (or was it 3rds?) and finally exploring more notes. However I see this one as only two important tonal centers, D maj and Bb major (G minor). The brief C7+4 comes twice in fairly obvious places, so part of the challenge is to negotiate those curves... or not. The second C7+4 acts as a kind sixth chord to my ear, and leads to the ii V I in D again.
 

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Here’s my take on this one on Soprano.
Alex,
Simon Cowell would say "you have 4 yeses" :).... what would you do if you'll get $1000000? :)

I can say just: Very adorable playing!
 
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Well thank you Michael and if they offered me a million I’d still say can I exchange it for a night on the town with Michael and a few glasses of wine?
😎
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
This tune defies the usual approach for playing over changes, such as Eric Marienthal's teachings on All The Things You Are. In a song like that, he suggests playing thorugh on just roots, then fifths (or was it 3rds?) and finally exploring more notes. However I see this one as only two important tonal centers, D maj and Bb major (G minor). The brief C7+4 comes twice in fairly obvious places, so part of the challenge is to negotiate those curves... or not. The second C7+4 acts as a kind sixth chord to my ear, and leads to the ii V I in D again.
Interestingly, had a miserable session, well, about ten days ago, now (traveled for a wedding over the holiday, so I'm out of sorts). New project and Clifford Jordan's Glass Bead Games was called. Love the tune, but has a similarly odd set of changes (in fact, very reminiscent of Giant Steps). Got by butt handed to me (just a rehearsal, but it still hurt). Tune is at 226 bpm, too. Anyway, I dug into it today, and it basically uses three scales: BMaj, B-, and BbMaj. Seems simple enough, and it definitely helped me to break it down that way, but it's still a bear. I guess, though, that's how we grow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Alex: Man, kudos for even hearing it this way. It's funny, I prefer playing in three (in general), but sometimes, you just need to rip a waltz apart and make it cram into 4! I can offer nothing in the way of constructive feedback because, well, let's face it, your practice muffs are beyond my capabilities. Nice take.

I think I'm caught up, but if I missed anybody, gimme a shout.
 

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Alex: Man, kudos for even hearing it this way. It's funny, I prefer playing in three (in general), but sometimes, you just need to rip a waltz apart and make it cram into 4! I can offer nothing in the way of constructive feedback because, well, let's face it, your practice muffs are beyond my capabilities. Nice take.

I think I'm caught up, but if I missed anybody, gimme a shout.
Sweet words and thank you. Just nice to participate in the TOTM and keep the spirit of it going.
 

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Alex: Man, kudos for even hearing it this way. It's funny, I prefer playing in three (in general), but sometimes, you just need to rip a waltz apart and make it cram into 4! I can offer nothing in the way of constructive feedback because, well, let's face it, your practice muffs are beyond my capabilities. Nice take.

I think I'm caught up, but if I missed anybody, gimme a shout.
I believe you may have missed posts from Brendan, Randulo's second, guidocreo, and myself. In the first page! But I'm sure plenty more are going to be coming as we make our way through the halfway marks of the month!
 

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This tune defies the usual approach for playing over changes, such as Eric Marienthal's teachings on All The Things You Are. In a song like that, he suggests playing thorugh on just roots, then fifths (or was it 3rds?) and finally exploring more notes. However I see this one as only two important tonal centers, D maj and Bb major (G minor). The brief C7+4 comes twice in fairly obvious places, so part of the challenge is to negotiate those curves... or not. The second C7+4 acts as a kind sixth chord to my ear, and leads to the ii V I in D again.
thanks Randulo - I have probably been approaching this too rigidly, mainly inn effort to try and correct my tendency to fudge through chords.. but the the harmonic structure of this song is not that strong, making it difficult to anchor improvisation onto it.
 

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Totally agree, and I think that's one of the things that attracted me to it. My general approach, based on the way I hear music, is to subdivide songs into... hell, I'm just going to put it this way: "modal clusters". I try to find a scale that fits a block of harmony, and then do the same for the next section. Not a great option on this song, so I added in a dash of "never more than 1/2-step from the truth". In general, I try to find whatever part of the harmony seems to make it unique, and focus on that (to avoid too many roots). On this one, I tried to leap back to the melody any time I got into trouble.
I'm going to have a go in the coming days, have just been too ill the past week or so. However, wil definitely bear this in mind. I must say, listening to everyone' s takes and getting familiar is helping. I just find it inherently a non-institutive song! I wonder what the composition process was - seems almost like an improvisation itself..
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Ah, so I did.

Brendan - your takes always make me wish I'd chose the bari for the TOTM. You get such a warm, mild tone. Nice overtones around 1:10. You seemed to find a ground you were comfortable with just before the pause at the turnaround about 1:45 (don't have my specs on). That last line before the pause is incredibly lyrical, as though a vocalist were singing it.

randulo - Love the blend of the two voices on the head. Your solo was very patient. Seemed like you were picking the spots you wanted to hit in the changes.

guidocreo - What is it about alto that makes it so much more challenging, at times, than tenor? Rhythm threw you on the head (I know that feeling well on this tune!). Seems like it should sit in spots, and it just doesn't, it keeps on rolling. One thing JA does well on the backings is highlighting the turnarounds. You remained extremely melodic throughout, which seems like a key on this tune. I mean, it's a catchy melody, so it's a good thing to hold onto. You have really good control and a very warm tone.

J-Moen - lower octave! Bold! You were cautious for a couple of choruses, but once you gained comfort, you seemed to find the flooring of the tune. Those changes, even though it's a lilting pace, come at you quickly. I think the discussion that ensues on page two is helpful about how to approach the changes. No rhyme nor reason why, but it always helped me to break down the changes of a song to the simplest form of the scales. Helps me get my head around it. I had an argument with someone once who maintained that doesn't work because, for example, A-7 to D7 share the same scale of GMaj, but the chord tones are opposing for the most part. I countered that, while that's true, Joe Henderson certainly made a career out of doing that. For some tunes, particularly those with a strong ii-V7 format, I'll read the changes out of the Eb book when playing tenor, just to force myself out of my comfort zone. To my ear, you're getting your head around the changes, but I'm not sure you believe it. ;)

Apologies for missing so many -- been mostly on the tablet the past week, and that's it's own browsing experience (oh, and I found my glasses!).

I actually gave this another run on bari last week, but was going to hold off. I'm out of practice here and was unsure about posting multiple takes. This is the bari take from October 5. Self analysis: Lately, my articulation sounds cluttered. I think part of this is because of Invisalign, but I've moved past that and we shall see (Yay, retainers! :rolleyes:). In general, I've been trying to move to a more melodic approach, trying to think like a vocalist. The results are varying. Interestingly, I recently cross-shared some session "tapes" with a bud from projects we've each been working with. He heard my approach as "not overblowing," and "unhurried". I hear myself as constantly overblowing and always rushing and too busy. Probably a good thing to bounce stuff off each other like this and digest the feedback. #LiveAndLearn
 

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J-Moen - lower octave! Bold! You were cautious for a couple of choruses, but once you gained comfort, you seemed to find the flooring of the tune. Those changes, even though it's a lilting pace, come at you quickly. I think the discussion that ensues on page two is helpful about how to approach the changes. No rhyme nor reason why, but it always helped me to break down the changes of a song to the simplest form of the scales. Helps me get my head around it. I had an argument with someone once who maintained that doesn't work because, for example, A-7 to D7 share the same scale of GMaj, but the chord tones are opposing for the most part. I countered that, while that's true, Joe Henderson certainly made a career out of doing that. For some tunes, particularly those with a strong ii-V7 format, I'll read the changes out of the Eb book when playing tenor, just to force myself out of my comfort zone. To my ear, you're getting your head around the changes, but I'm not sure you believe it. ;)


I actually gave this another run on bari last week, but was going to hold off. I'm out of practice here and was unsure about posting multiple takes. This is the bari take from October 5. Self analysis: Lately, my articulation sounds cluttered. I think part of this is because of Invisalign, but I've moved past that and we shall see (Yay, retainers! :rolleyes:). In general, I've been trying to move to a more melodic approach, trying to think like a vocalist. The results are varying. Interestingly, I recently cross-shared some session "tapes" with a bud from projects we've each been working with. He heard my approach as "not overblowing," and "unhurried". I hear myself as constantly overblowing and always rushing and too busy. Probably a good thing to bounce stuff off each other like this and digest the feedback. #LiveAndLearn
Thanks! The hesitation was actually me trying to play reserves to let my solo build, but I never found a good flow, so it just kinda turns on at one point haha. That said, I definitely haven't felt the most comfortable with the changes, just occasionally finding a 3/7 that I want to hit! Next take for me is going to involve something different, and hopefully more structured :)

Beautiful Bari playing. Love the little bit of bark in your Bari sound while staying with a fairly lush tone. Then the solo hit and you blew it out the water. You were flying around with some awesome phrases. Great stuff!
 
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