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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As some of you may know, Chedeville used to make a single reed mouthpiece for oboe. It looked pretty similar to a soprano saxophone mouthpiece and it used a clarinet reed.

Anyways, has anyone ever tried to affix a soprano sax mouthpiece to an oboe? If not, would you be willing to test it for me?

I made a way to attach my sop mpc to an oboe, but I don't have access to an oboe to try it out. here's what I did:

I took a standard oboe staple and wrapped the metal part of it with a sheet of cork so that it could attach to the sop mpc. I then inserted it all the way into the mpc until the chamber opening stopped it from going farther. There is slightly less than half the staple's original cork showing, in order to insert it into the oboe.

The mouthpiece works and makes a sound when you blow into it, but I wonder what it would make an oboe sound like.

Here's a demonstration of the Chedeville oboe mouthpiece:

It sounds like an oboe to me.
 

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I've seen these before--both the bassoon and oboe versions. These do not use a clarinet reed. They use a specialized single reed that's about the size one side of an oboe (or bassoon) reed. If you look closely at the video, you'll see that the mouthpiece is just over twice the 5 or so mm of the opening of the oboe, making it ~1cm in diameter. No clarinet reed, even an eefer reed, would fit that.

It did sound like an oboe played by a talented beginner--a very spread and 'squawky' sound.
 

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An oboe's sound is soft, delicate and rounded.

This sound is loud, bright and wide.

I think the main reason for this is that the double reed is also the resonating chamber, and the cane naturally produces a softer sound. A single reed with a plastic/rubber mouthpiece naturally is going to produce a harder, more brackish sound.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So does anyone have an oboe, a soprano sax mouthpiece, and some cork that would be willing to try this out?

Anyways, I heard that the Runyon bassoon mouthpiece uses a standard clarinet reed.
 

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selmer 26 nino, 22 curved sop, super alto, King Super 20 and Martin tenors, Stowasser tartogatos
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No way--the internal volume is much too large for it to every play in tune. Single reed oboe mpcs are tiny. Think about a bari mpc on a soprano sax...
 

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I think it's a solution looking for a problem, especially the runyon bassoon mouthpiece. The challenge of playing the bassoon is not the reeds, it's the 'illogical' fingerings. I've read that Santy had someone make some good bassoon reeds, and then he measured the volume of the reed, and matched that to the mouthpiece. It's easier to believe that a clarinet reed would work, since a clarinet reed is about the same width as a bassoon reed.

As kymarto rightly states, the internal volume of a soprano sax mouthpiece is too big.
 

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Good luck with your tinkering. I wish you well.
 

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But I was thinking of decreasing the volume with cork until it came up to pitch.
As you can see on the video that you posted, the staple has been cut and is shorter --so the volume inside the mouthpiece can be a little bit bigger; it would be quite difficult to make a single reed mouthpiece with a very small volume.

However, I'm also saying: why?
 

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I think some go this route because they think that playing on a double reed is too difficult, and they'd rather stick to a set-up they already know.

I play oboe, English horn and bassoon, and it really isn't that hard at all--with a little practice, of course.
 

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selmer 26 nino, 22 curved sop, super alto, King Super 20 and Martin tenors, Stowasser tartogatos
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There are a couple of issues. Consider how stuffy and unresponsive single reed mpcs with extremely wide side rails are. Now consider the internal volume of an oboe reed--above the staple end. It's tiny. The oboe has an extremely narrow bore. You'd have to fill 75% of a sop sax mpc's internal volume to get into the ballpark. Where are you going to fill? You'd end up filling the baffle except for a narrow center channel. That means you only have something like 25% of the reed width actually being coupled with the pressure variations inside the mpc. The rest of that reed is nothing but excess baggage. It's going to be a nightmare.

Two more points: the mpc is much too long. That will screw with all the tube impedances peaks, especially all the higher ones. And then consider that the staple is analogous to the sax neck. You need it. Now look at the ID of the end of the staple and that of the sop sax mpc. That is the impedance mismatch from hell. I doubt if you could get a sound out of it, but I'd love to see somebody try just to see if I am right.
 

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Thanks for reviving this. Benade actually grouped all of the conical woodwinds together in his writings since they all follow the same acoustic principles. The requirements for the oboe, bassoon, and saxophone to work "properly" are: 1) the "effective volume" of the oboe reed on its staple, bassoon reed on its bocal, and saxophone mouthpiece on its neck must be a close match to the volume of the "missing cone", and 2) the "played frequency" (Frs)* of this part of the instrument must match the "natural resonant frequency" of a cone of equal length. The Frs of an oboe reed on its staple is a C concert. The Frs of an alto saxophone mouthpiece on its neck is an Ab concert, and a tenor mouthpiece on its neck and E concert. I don't know the optimum pitch of a bassoon reed on its bocal.

* Frequency of a reed on its staple. The equivalent of the staple on bassoon is the bocal, and on saxophone the neck.
 

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selmer 26 nino, 22 curved sop, super alto, King Super 20 and Martin tenors, Stowasser tartogatos
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THe problem here is that the bocal of an oboe reed is not an equivalent length of conical air column to the neck of a sax, and in fact the necks of saxes vary between sizes in terms of the percentage of air column length they comprise.
 

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What I remember reading is that the Runyon bassoon single reed MP used a clarinet reed, and that the tonal results were variably reported - I remember a range from "sounds almost exactly like a double reed" to "pretty awful".

What I remember reading about oboe is that someone made up a few single reeds for it using a special narrow reed (I'm guessing, cut down from a clarinet reed) but not much more than that.

My late friend Bob Kershner showed me a specimen of each back around 1990; but I've rarely seen or heard of them since.
 

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selmer 26 nino, 22 curved sop, super alto, King Super 20 and Martin tenors, Stowasser tartogatos
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What I remember reading is that the Runyon bassoon single reed MP used a clarinet reed, and that the tonal results were variably reported - I remember a range from "sounds almost exactly like a double reed" to "pretty awful".

What I remember reading about oboe is that someone made up a few single reeds for it using a special narrow reed (I'm guessing, cut down from a clarinet reed) but not much more than that.

My late friend Bob Kershner showed me a specimen of each back around 1990; but I've rarely seen or heard of them since.
Actually it appears that it is possible to construct a single-reed oboe mpc using a clarinet reed, as cited below in a research paper. The caveat is that the volume of the chamber has to closely match that of the missing conic apex of the oboe. A soprano sax mouthpiece has a much larger internal volume than an oboe reed. However it might well be possible to fill the interior of a nino mpc and create a throat that would match the diameter of the oboe reed staple, in such a way that a nino reed could be made to power an oboe. Failing that, a clarinet mpc would next best.

https://acoustics.ippt.pan.pl/index.php/aa/article/viewFile/178/pdf_223
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