[xax]

Anyone know during what period Sonny was playing a Super 20?
In an earlier thread Milomo[/I ]and others suggest it was between 1958-59...

i'm curious to (re)listen to his work on Super 20 because a New York player recently told me that Sonny said the S20 was pretty much the best horn he ever had(or words to that effect)...

 

[Rennie]

This photo is by Herman Leonard, labeled Paris, France 1960.
There is this video from february 1959. His discography mentions a recording from march 1959.
He holds a Silversonic on the sleeve of "Sonny Rollins and the Contemporary Leaders" - that was recorded in october 20 to 22, 1958.
On the sleeve of the Metro Jazz LP "Sonny Rollins and the Big Brass" there is a photo of Sonny in the studio with a Silversonic - the sessions on that record were recorded on July 10 and 11 1958.

So, the above suggests a period from june 1958 to somewhere in 1960 in which he played the S20. After that came the famous sabbatical, and he reappeared with a Selmer...

 

[LiAm84]

So, the above suggests a period from june 1958 to somewhere in 1960 in which he played the S20. After that came the famous sabbatical, and he reappeared with a Selmer...

I think he may have played the S20 for an even shorter period of time. I have the jazz icons series II 'bonus disk' DVD which has some amazing footage of Rollins from 1959. On the Swedish performance he is playing the King and in the Dutch concert he is playing a Mark VI. Both performances are from 1959 so perhaps he changed horns during the course of that European tour? He is playing his 'double ring' Otto Link mouthpiece in both concerts so that might suggest that he didn't have his horn stolen. He sounds amazing on both horns, I really couldn't pick a favourite.

 

[Rennie]

Yes, I wondered about the concert - supposedly from the Singerzaal in Laren. Sonny not only sports a Selmer but glasses. What's the deal with that? Also, why is the band looking away from the audience?
Apart from the opticianic conundrum, there is no mention of this recording in the discography i pointed to in my eariier post. I wonder if it was recorded on the same tour?

 

[drwhippet]

Anyone know during what period Sonny was playing a Super 20?
In an earlier thread Milomo[/I ]and others suggest it was between 1958-59...

i'm curious to (re)listen to his work on Super 20 because a New York player recently told me that Sonny said the S20 was pretty much the best horn he ever had(or words to that effect)...

He's on the Super 20 (Silver-Sonic) in at least these four recordings:

Sony Rollins and the Contemporary Leaders (1958)
Sonny Rollins and the Big Brass (1958)
Sonny Rollins Trio in Stockholm (1959)
The Modern Jazz Quartet at Music Inn: Guest Artist Sonny Rollins (1958)

Someone on here posited that he's on it on Freedom Suite as well, which was recorded in early 1958; but listening to it I still think he's on the VI on that one. This tells me he probably acquired the Super 20 in the spring or early summer of 1958, because he definitely had it in the summer of '58 according to photos of him with it at the Newport Jazz Fest that year.

But I agree with Sonny on his sound on this horn. Here's a sample of him playing it with a Link as you noted on "...and the Contemporary Leaders:"

(BTW if it was new in 1958 the serial number of his SS would have been around 360,xxx.)

 

[Rennie]

It's funny - because the sound of that record - I mean the Freedom Suite - is so different from the records before, I was tempted to think he could have played a S20 on that one. It is well possible, though, that the difference in sound is because of a different studio and sound engineer.

 

[LiAm84]

Yes, I wondered about the concert - supposedly from the Singerzaal in Laren. Sonny not only sports a Selmer but glasses. What's the deal with that? Also, why is the band looking away from the audience?

Here is the Horace Silver quintet from the same concert also with their backs to the audience. Perhaps it was easier to film the band that way?

 

[14470]

It's funny - because the sound of that record - I mean the Freedom Suite - is so different from the records before, I was tempted to think he could have played a S20 on that one. It is well possible, though, that the difference in sound is because of a different studio and sound engineer.

I agree. I have been taking for granted (sort of still do) that Sonny Rollins used a S20 with Otto Link to record "The Freedom Suite". It represents to me one of the most distinctive haunting sounds on saxophone I have heard. BTW, I don't have access to the liner notes right now, but isn't it odd that "The" is omitted from the album title but not the opening track. Wonder what, if any, the story is behind that.

 

[drwhippet]

I guess it's possible that he used a Super 20 on Freedom Suite, given the recording date, but it still sounds similar to his sound on Way Out West to me from the previous year, in which he was definitely on the VI. To me the Contemporary Leaders sound is much more of an obvious Super 20 sound--plus the fact that he's posing with the S20 on the cover!

Maybe someone will produce some definitive proof that he's playing a Super 20 on Freedom Suite; until then my money's on the VI on that one. :bluewink:

 

[Rennie]

Here is the Horace Silver quintet from the same concert also with their backs to the audience. Perhaps it was easier to film the band that way?
Who will tell? It is pretty strange, and as you've now shown, a consistent thing for that particular concert. Junior Cook is playing a Selmer btw, which gives ground for a little theory in which Sonny's horn broke, he needed a replacement very quickly, so he borrowed Junior's one. How about that? :|

 

[Rennie]

Another take from the same concert - it explains a bit more...

Apparently a TV broadcast recorded with an audience.

 

[rhysonsax]

He's on the Super 20 (Silver-Sonic) in at least these four recordings:

Sony Rollins and the Contemporary Leaders (1958)
Sonny Rollins and the Big Brass (1958)
Sonny Rollins Trio in Stockholm (1959)
The Modern Jazz Quartet at Music Inn: Guest Artist Sonny Rollins (1958)

I think he sounds great on these, especially when he lingers down the bottom of the instrument - like on the video clip you included. The song "You are Too Beautiful" from the SR & the Big Brass album (but I think recorded separately and live with 3/4 of the Modern Jazz Quartet) is one of my favourite performances.

Rhys

 

[edsel00]

I guess he isn't playing a King in '57, so apologies in advance for smuggling this into the King forum, but what was he playing on "Night at the Village Vanguard." Man, that is a powerhouse live album (and tenor sound).

thanks
ed

 

[milandro]

he played both in the same year

Stockholm (no spectacles, super 20)

Laren ( with spectacles Mark VI)

 

[jicaino]

He's playing the Big B again here

[video=YOUTUBE;cv92fHYDyNY]

[/video]

don't you guys think that a tenor player would have had more than just one horn?

 

[Rennie]

Sure he would have more than one horn. However, the OP was interested in the timeframe in which Sonny played the S20 - so I enumerated in my answer (post #2) the known data. He could have had a Buescher in that same period - but he is never seen with a S20 again after 1961...

As for my little theory about him borrowing a VI from another player in the concert where he was billed together with Horace Silver - that is just a tiny little theory I came up with there and then. I frnakly don't think that that was the case.

 

[jicaino]

Sure he would have more than one horn. However, the OP was interested in the timeframe in which Sonny played the S20 - so I enumerated in my answer (post #2) the known data. He could have had a Buescher in that same period - but he is never seen with a S20 again after 1961...

As for my little theory about him borrowing a VI from another player in the concert where he was billed together with Horace Silver - that is just a tiny little theory I came up with there and then. I frnakly don't think that that was the case.

Sorry if I made it sound like sarcasm, it was really a question (granted, a semi retorical one) because the S20 thing got me thinking of Sonny on Bueschers...

 

[soybean]

don't you guys think that a tenor player would have had more than just one horn?

No I don't. Sax players in those days usually only had one horn. Maybe Sonny had more than one though. He does sound excellent on the Big B. What year was that filmed?

 

[14470]

No I don't. Sax players in those days usually only had one horn. Maybe Sonny had more than one though. He does sound excellent on the Big B. What year was that filmed?

Perhaps he has settled down, but my impression is/was that Sonny Rollins at least went through a phase where he owned loads of horns; sort of like Coltrane and mouthpieces.

 

[jicaino]

No I don't. Sax players in those days usually only had one horn. Maybe Sonny had more than one though. He does sound excellent on the Big B. What year was that filmed?

65, long before he switched over to the VI

Perhaps he has settled down, but my impression is/was that Sonny Rollins at least went through a phase where he owned loads of horns; sort of like Coltrane and mouthpieces.

+1 brasscane. He later settled on the VI.