[The Big Woo]

A rather striking pair of fakes. Alto and Tenor. Serial numbers 77997 and 77998.
While these forgeries are not perfect, it is becoming obvious that the bad guys are stepping up their game and becoming quite good at making fake saxophones.

The hand engraving on the bell is actually really very good and quite fantastic looking.

Numerous tipoffs here, but the most obvious is that both necks say "H. Selmer Papis".

I'm not going to list everything else because at some point the bad guys are probably going to find this post.

Not sure if these are being made in Taiwan or China. These generally play very poorly and out of tune because of what they are.

(Don't confuse these fakes with Mauriat's, R.S. Berkeley, T.M. and Kessler horns which actually play as good or much better than the original French horns themselves)

 

[The Big Woo]

Alto is exactly consistently the same. The only difference is the serial number differs by 1.

 

[A Greene]

How does the tenor play?

 

[The Big Woo]

Awful intonation playing with a good Link. L pinky table action is poor. Rods are not tight. Better off with a Hawk or Amazon online tenor.
I was hoping at least one of these two would be fun for a few hundred bucks. Nope....

Several local pawn shops have gotten burnt on these..... Seems to be an individual going around floating the story that "I was in the UCLA marching band and after we relacquered these they were never used...."

Not sure if they're an end-user or if they are a part of the bigger picture from Asia.


Alright, that may be me being hypercritical of the horn. The tenor does have a big medium bright sound, full, with very little resistance. Yes, somebody could adjust to this and make it sound good. Yes, this is a better neck than many I have played which were terribly stuffy. I just think that tuning is bad on all of these because they are not perfected to be killer-resonant powerhouses like a Mauriat, not made with care by a woodwind team.
They are made to deceive people.
I dunno, adjust key heights and maybe ok...

 

[A Greene]

Forgery in Name Only - Bummer.

Awful intonation playing with a good Link. L pinky table action is poor. Rods are not tight. Better off with a Hawk or Amazon online tenor.
I was hoping at least one of these two would be fun for a few hundred bucks. Nope....

Several local pawn shops have gotten burnt on these..... Seems to be an individual going around floating the story that "I was in the UCLA marching band and after we relacquered these they were never used...."

Not sure if they're an end-user or if they are a part of the bigger picture from Asia.

Alright, that may be me being hypercritical of the horn. The tenor does have a big medium bright sound, full, with very little resistance. Yes, somebody could adjust to this and make it sound good. Yes, this is a better neck than many I have played which were terribly stuffy. I just think that tuning is bad on all of these because they are not perfected to be killer-resonant powerhouses like a Mauriat, not made with care by a woodwind team.
They are made to deceive people.
I dunno, adjust key heights and maybe ok...

 

[LostConn]

Amazingly shiny and scratch-free finishes on these 60-year-old saxophones.

Creating counterfeit versions of popular name-brand products and simulating antique objects are two different kinds of fraud. We are fortunate that the sax scammers don't understand that yet.

 

[The Big Woo]

Amazingly shiny and scratch-free finishes on these 60-year-old saxophones.

Creating counterfeit versions of popular name-brand products and simulating antique objects are two different kinds of fraud. We are fortunate that the sax scammers don't understand that yet.

+1!

 

[soybean]

I would point out some of the many red flags but who would want to help the forgers to improve their product?

 

[J.Max]

It’s interesting that they’re still selling it...did they at least mark it as fake?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Big Woo]

It's interesting that they're still selling it...did they at least mark it as fake?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's the sad thing- They are selling these as "Selmer Paris Mark VI sax". This shop always marks things on the high side of full retail pricing. So somebody is going to think that they either:

A. Know something that the pawn shop doesn't, thinks each is authentic and will purchase these thinking they're about to make a flip fortune.

B. Purchase these thinking that it could be a great playing horn despite being fake.

C. Several other possibilities.

I asked the manager to look at each horn with me and mentioned that these are fake. I pointed out the exact same "H. Selmer Papis" on each neck and she became very nervous, very silent, and then fessed up that the "other head manager accidentally bought these and we were gonna mark them for thousands of dollars. But these are super pretty and really great saxes so the price of $750 each is still a great deal for anybody who plays!!!. The small one is really great looking and this big one is just like it!!!!..."

 

[The Big Woo]

Regarding the above, I sometimes worry that forgeries may not be made with the same materials that a good Professional sax is made with.
I may possibly be worrying about nothing. My wife hates that I play nearly every sax I come across if it looks interesting.

These are not made to play well. These are not made to last. These are made to steal money from people.

Would the person who runs this factory/shop even care if they were making people sick?

Could the (cheapest possible?) lacquer have something toxic in it?
Could the (cheapest possible?) metal be adulterated with anything dangerous, carcinogenic or toxic?

I'm guessing the materials may be different, I dunno...

 

[1saxman]

Those 'copies' are pretty lame. Very cursory and almost primitive work resulting in shadowy imitations that wouldn't fool a six year old kid. Check out Eastern Music that has a VI tenor that looks better than that. Some of these Chinese horns actually are okay but you have to be prepared to do some tweaking on them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eastern-mu...fabric-case-/382646873036?hash=item591787ebcc

 

[The Big Woo]

Those 'copies' are pretty lame. Very cursory and almost primitive work resulting in shadowy imitations that wouldn't fool a six year old kid. Check out Eastern Music that has a VI tenor that looks better than that. Some of these Chinese horns actually are okay but you have to be prepared to do some tweaking on them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eastern-mu...fabric-case-/382646873036?hash=item591787ebcc

Yeah, most people on this forum would instantly recognize these as counterfeit. However, these have been purchased and returned by three different parties in the past week. Probably people who think they're about to become rich on fleabay.
it is very unfortunate that these are still labeled as Selmer Paris saxophones though. ?

The floral engraving is quite nice. That may indicate that the bad guys are evolving and dialing in certain elements of these.

 

[EsbSpecial]

Do they still have the "Elkmart" error as well?

 

[Dave Dolson]

I don't know about Colorado's trademark-infringement laws (assuming you saw these displayed in Colorado), but if they have one, the mere possession of those counterfeit Selmer's is probably a criminal offense regardless if the store labels them as FAKES. If I were you, I'd make an issue of it. There is NO excuse for possessing those or trying to do business with them. DAVE

 

[Tranechaser]

Those actually look pretty cool.....not that I would actually buy one though!

 

[The Big Woo]

Do they still have the "Elkmart" error as well?

No, Check out the picture that I posted of the bell logo engraving. These days everything is being spelled correctly and the font is shockingly similar to the original Selmer Paris. These jagoff's are doing a pretty good job

 

[The Big Woo]

I don't know about Colorado's trademark-infringement laws (assuming you saw these displayed in Colorado), but if they have one, the mere possession of those counterfeit Selmer's is probably a criminal offense regardless if the store labels them as FAKES. If I were you, I'd make an issue of it. There is NO excuse for possessing those or trying to do business with them. DAVE

Dave, I know that this topic always gets your feathers ruffled and that is not my intent here. I'm with you, 101%

 

[AddictedToSax]

Would the person who runs this factory/shop even care if they were making people sick?

The Chinese dog food factories were happy to add melamine, a chemical used to make plastics, to dog food in order to fool the protein content testing done by the FDA. Hundreds of American's dogs died from kidney failure. They also adulterated chicken feed with melamine and the chickens were then sold in the US to about 2.5 to 3 million people. So hell no they don't care. They only want to make money and they don't care who they hurt...or rip off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_adulteration_in_China

I would never consider buying an obvious counterfeit. 1. it's a crime. 2. It keeps these criminals in business

That other alto someone posted from Amazon doesn't claim to be an actual Mark VI. It's advertised as a Mark IV type saxophone. That's a copy not a counterfeit.

 

[The Big Woo]

Those actually look pretty cool.....not that I would actually buy one though!

Trust me, the tuning on these is way out of whack and none of the pads seal well. The tenor and alto both had a huge sound, full, but terrible in other areas. I don't want to hand the bad guys a playbook in case they check these posts. You can honestly sound much better with a $300 tenor from Amazon.