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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I sometimes notice when people ask a question here they get lots of answers. It doesn't matter how hard or easy the question there are lots of people willing to answer....

Yet sometimes these same people that so quickly answer complicated or even very basic questions will later start a thread with a question or comment that Really shows that they don't know that much about the saxophone or even music and maybe could learn more from sitting back and reading responses or asking questions rather than answering them.

Just an observation.
 

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sonnymobleytrane said:
I sometimes notice when people ask a question here they get lots of answers. It doesn't matter how hard or easy the question there are lots of people willing to answer....

Yet sometimes these same people that so quickly answer complicated or even very basic questions will later start a thread with a question or comment that Really shows that they don't know that much about the saxophone or even music and maybe could learn more from sitting back and reading responses or asking questions rather than answering them.

Just an observation.

Yep they do and most of it is quoted parott fashion from what they have read here rather than from personal experience.
And they are more often than not new members who are still at school.
I find it irritating :x
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The reason I bring it up is if someone (maybe a beginner) comes here with a question How will he/she know who to listen to?

I guess this is part of the reason why the Correct response to most questions is
"Get a Private Instructor."
 

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I am a college music major and saxophonist. I personally believe that I can offer better advice than some members of this forum, even in my limited experience. At the same time, I would also say that there are MANY MANY MANY players on this forum who would absolutely blow me out of the water.

I take every piece of advice I read on the forum at face value, and I think that's something that most readers on this site do. I firmly believe that the youngest beginner and the oldest veteran have something to offer to almost any discussion. AND...sometimes you don't have to do to teach. I can teach you how to play the violin. Can I play the violin? Barely. I can teach you how to do different effects on your saxophone. Can I do them? Not necessarily.

I also don't see any problem with members quoting things in "parrot fashion." Knowledge is knowledge, where it arrives from is debatable in importance. The greatest thing about this site is that if someone answers a post, even if they are just a parrot of information, other users will jump in to give a more detailed account. and if the person who gave the answer is an idiot, who will most likely be called out on. It consistently happens.

I think for the youngest posters "talk to a private teacher" is usually the best option, although if they're mature enough to come to this site and ask a question that they really want an answer too, I think they can get some pretty solid advice out of what they'll read.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
rs1sensen said:
I am a college music major and saxophonist. I personally believe that I can offer better advice than some members of this forum, even in my limited experience. At the same time, I would also say that there are MANY MANY MANY players on this forum who would absolutely blow me out of the water.

From reading your post chances are pretty good that I am not talking about YOU! ;)
 

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Ya mind if I ask why this was created into a thread?

If you have a problem with said person, or the post wouldn't the mature thing to do be to PM them?

~Carbs
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Carbs said:
Ya mind if I ask why this was created into a thread?

If you have a problem with said person, or the post wouldn't the mature thing to do be to PM them?

~Carbs

It was just an observation not a rant. Truth be told its not one person it happens over and over again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Carbs said:
It was a very good observation. Kinda wondering why it was posted in the Jazz and improv. section.

Cause its usually questions about Theory, Scales, Chords, Modes, etc that get so butchered.
 

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Don't worry yourself Carbs. He's talking about me. ;) :D

There's a lot of truth in the observation, but what's the alternative? Do we all post questions and wait for the heavyweights to answer them all?

On the odd occasion when I post something serious here, (rarer than rocking horse ****, I know), I try to steer people towards the information or people that have helped me in similar situations.

Oddly enough, it's often not the great players, who are most helpful, to me anyway. Rather, it's the players that have had to find a workable method of making sense of the overwhelming amount of info out there and can clearly delineate a plan for getting from beginner, to intermediate, to gigging. Sometimes the good players are far better at playing than they are at teaching. Sometimes too, you get lucky and stumble accross someone who's good at both.

Sometimes the best option, is to be candid and just say "I don't know, but I do know someone who might be able to help."
 

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Ohh thank goodness.
I was thinking, man if he had a problem with what I am writing, he didn't have to start a thread about it.
I borke out of Jail for a few minutes. I figure, I stay away from the topics about my horns, and I should be fine ;). A few post 1 to three a day, and I can still get alot of praticing done!! Its amazing!!

Come on Dog Pants, where on a Sax forum were supposed to know everything ;).
My only piece of advice is to lesson to the Greats. Listen and get idea's. Thats the only piece of advice I am qualified to make. That and get a #@$#% TEacher :D.

~Carbs
 

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Part of the learning process is similar to jazz - bat around some ideas and see what sounds good, right? Sure, there are the basics that are absolute, but there is much left to opinion.
Its all good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Dog Pants said:
Don't worry yourself Carbs. He's talking about me. ;) :D

There's a lot of truth in the observation, but what's the alternative? Do we all post questions and wait for the heavyweights to answer them all?

On the odd occasion when I post something serious here, (rarer than rocking horse ****, I know), I try to steer people towards the information or people that have helped me in similar situations.

Oddly enough, it's often not the great players, who are most helpful, to me anyway. Rather, it's the players that have had to find a workable method of making sense of the overwhelming amount of info out there and can clearly delineate a plan for getting from beginner, to intermediate, to gigging. Sometimes the good players are far better at playing than they are at teaching. Sometimes too, you get lucky and stumble accross someone who's good at both.

Sometimes the best option, is to be candid and just say "I don't know, but I do know someone who might be able to help."

I agree with everything that you have said, and I knew these things before I posted. It was hard to frame every scenerio in my thread.
It is possible to learn from everyone I leanr a lot from teaching. Qusetions students ask sometimes give me another way to look at things I may not have thought of.
But sometimes people just post the answer to stuff when they are Totally wrong!!!
 

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That's the thing about a discussion forum : inherently to the discussion is a difference in opinion, also about the truth. You're right in your observation.

But what are you going to do about it? Even the great ones tend to beat up eachother on certain issues.

I get the info, try it out, spread the one I believe that worked for me. And if you don't dig it or disagree with what I say, I love to be corrected. Also being corrected is a way to learn.
 

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As a beginner who has used this forum for several months now I have to say that the information I've been given has been extremely helpful. Similar to what Jolle said, I get the info and figure out what works for me. I also have a teacher as my primary source of information. So this forum is a secondary source -- when I'm thinking about a question and am near a computer. If the answers I get don't resolve the question, I take it back to my teacher next lesson. And ultimately the sounds coming from my horn give me the final answer.

That being said, it's easy for me as an adult and as a teacher myself to separate the wheat from the chaff. I suspect that very young beginners might be more inclined to get confused, overwhelmed or discouraged by too many conflicting answers. From the threads I've posted and read, it's obvious that everyone is sincerely trying to be helpful. I'd just say, exercise caution. Certainly advice from beginners can be helpful, as in I did this a year ago when I started and it really helped, or I used this book which was really helpful, or hey a teacher is really important even if it's only once a month. (But not for nothing, my first teacher, who was excellent by the way, wanted me to learn the major scales but didn't push it and never suggested I memorize them. The best thing I've done is memorize the major, minor and pentatonic scales and the I, ii, V chord progressions). But if we're not sure of the answer, we should certainly leave it to the pros.
 

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Dog Pants said:
Don't worry yourself Carbs. He's talking about me. ;) :D
I thought he was talking about me! The trouble with most advice given on here is that the student's stage of development is difficult to take into consideration.

While a veteran saxophone player like Sonny Rollins might say, "Just play what you want to hear." Another might say, "Learn your triads." Neither advice is right nor wrong, but depending on the student's perpsective one piece of advice may be more appropriate than another.

Reminds me of an important phrase: "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear!" What this means to me is that any person learning something new needs the right advice at the right time. It makes no sense to try to teach quantum physics to someone that doesn't know arithmetic.

My musical mentor was telling me a story about when he saw one of his heroes in concert and asked him for advice. The hero said, "Hey they're only 12 notes -- ever! How difficult could that be?" It was just the advice he needed to go on and become a versatile virtuoso on his instrument.

What this illustrates is the need for appropriate, accurate, and timely advice. In a forum like this there eventually becomes a barrage of information and none of the advice is actually taken. The same old answers get perpetually regurgitated over and over. It becomes a contest over who has the biggest brain rather than what is going to help the student the most. Certainly 100 things to try isn't going to help much. What the student needs is focus and discipline. Take the one piece of advice that strikes a chord and theorize and go over it. Find out where, when it works, when it doesn't. Devise your own set of tenets based on the advice you were given and the things you were able to prove and or disprove.

Darn, this is getting long. One more anecdote and I'll quit. My daughter told me not long ago that she had a sore finger. I asked her why it was sore and she said she burned it on a hot pot over at Gram's house. She went on to say, "I saw where Grandma was cooking, she told me it was hot, and I knew it was hot, but I just had to try it for myself." I was actually proud of her.
 

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To the issue in general, I liken it to what I learned from critics. I used to read downbeat religiously for years and knew the critic's respective likes and dislikes so well, I could get a lot out of their critiques regardless if I saw eye-to-eye with them. There is a second strata of information lying beneath what those critics would say and that's where you could get a lot of information.

I have done the same thing here, particularly in the beginning. After a while you know what angle certain people are looking at something and you can filter it to your benefit, even when it's diametrically opposed to what you think. You learn that poster X has an opinion opposite yours in a certain area and generally take that into account when reading his/her opinion; sometimes that means just ignoring it. OTOH you also learn when to perk your ears when that same person writes about something you know they have a lot on knowledge about. Normally this takes some time to sort out before it becomes second nature, so my advice to newcomers to this board is not to jump in there too soon on how much weight you might give someone's opinion.

Which gets to "parroting". I interpreted SMB's comments to refer to those who really don't know what they're talking about, but give an opinion or advice anyway because someone else wrote it. In my mind there's a difference between this and repeating or quoting someone else who has credibility on some subject.

An off shoot of this, is that there are some who will vehemently defend, or condemn, certain musicians or merchants because of some sort of hype they've read and perpetuated when, in fact, they've never first hand heard any comments from people in the music industry who would know whether these things, or reputations are even true. But then someone else might make a negative comment about said musician or merchant, and these guys who, I repeat, have no first-hand knowledge to back themselves up, come out of the woodwork. I've got little use for this.

Playing on a riff...
I also scratch my head at times why a thread will go on for another two pages of redundant advice when an answer was already given early in the thread.
 

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sonnymobleytrane said:
I sometimes notice when people ask a question here they get lots of answers. It doesn't matter how hard or easy the question there are lots of people willing to answer....

Yet sometimes these same people that so quickly answer complicated or even very basic questions will later start a thread with a question or comment that Really shows that they don't know that much about the saxophone or even music and maybe could learn more from sitting back and reading responses or asking questions rather than answering them.

Just an observation.
I think this is definitely an accurate observation. I guess I'm a little old fashioned so I usually go to my teachers or peers first if I have any questions. They've heard me play and that usually gives them a better perspective on whatever I may be asking.

This forum has been very valuable to me when guys like Tim Price (among others) respond to my questions. There are definitely a lot of heavy players who post here.
 

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I just don't like the guys that jump in on threads they're not involved with to declare the discussion is over; as if they've somehow reached a moral plateau on all issues of forum divisiveness. Then there are of course those that make vague, strawman like critiques on matters of which they should know better, as if people haven't done their own homework. This is made more ironic by those who demand others use the search function, but then insist they can't use that information for their own purposes. Yeah, those guys... or guy.
 

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I like it all. The questions. The answers. The information. The misinformation. The group dynamics. The egos. I like it when someone participates enough that a pattern emerges and I can predict their response to something. I like it even more when my prediction is wrong.

The original premise of this thread is that some folks pretend expertise in all things saxophone+music then seem to reveal their hidden identities by asking questions an expert should not need to ask.

I see no anomoly there.

For example, I know a lot about practical theory and much less about formal theory. I was playing the tritone substitution for decades before I learned its name. So I might pontificate grandly one day on how to shed the ii-V7-I changes but ask a dumb question about the Pentagonic Maldavrian mode the next.

Newbies will just have to learn how to separate the bull from the fertilizer the same way the rest of us did. Until then, wanna go on a snipe hunt?
 
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