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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just wanted to share a story with everyone out there.
I hope that It hits home.
I recently bought a mouthpiece. YAMAHA 4C
I had it narrowed down to about 5 mouthpieces that I wanted and shopped online first
since I never played a different mouthpiece I went to my local store to try them out.

The yamaha was perfect. IT was priced at 37.00
Online it was 25.00
I bought it at the store.
I am PAYING to get the PRIVELEDGE of trying the mouthpiece out
Or the sax
Or the clarinet
ETC ETC ETC

I have heard stories of people spending hours in a shop, finding what they wanted then buying it cheaper online.

That is a disgusting, imoral thing to do
DONT DO IT
If you want to but it cheaper on line FINE go for it
But dont waste hours of a shopkeepers time and merchandise doing so.

I know I want a rico royal 2.5 reed. So I will but it online cheaper.

But To try something out, find one you like, then but it online is dishonest. If you are going to waste a shops time, manpower and merchandise then have the decency to buy it from them if you decide too.

Anything less is immoral.

DAVE
 

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pat yourself on the back for me!
 

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That's an interesting and honest position, Dave.

I try to live my life in a moral way and I respect your point. But I'm not so sure I agree. Many times I have gone to a local car dealer and test drove different models to find out which one I want. And invariably, that local dealer has never had the best price on the model I want to buy. So I search until I find the dealer with the best price and buy the car I want. I don't feel obligated to buy the local dealer's car for several thousand dollars extra.

In the small rural town where I grew up, the local shops often had their prices jacked up so high that it was cheaper to drive 100 miles to Little Rock to buy what I wanted. That even includes groceries. So maybe, I don't have the appreciation of small local vendors that others have.

But maybe I do sometime feel a little guilty about that. And I guess that's why I usually breakdown and buy the $6-each Vandoren reeds from the local music shop. I know they are robbing me, but I figure that's fair compensation since I sometimes try out their stuff.
 

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I agree too for several reasons.

Stan
 

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I had an upright electric string bass picked out from an online seller. I went to a local dealer and explained that, asked if I could try out his floor model, and asked if he could get anywhere near the online price. He couldn't (the online bass wasn't new), but he encouraged me to use his bass to ensure that it was really what I wanted. It was. I bought the online bass, but I bought several accessoried from the dealer including new strings, a custom carrying case, and a floor stand adaptor, all of which came to several hundred dollars. I don't think there is anything immoral in what I did. Neither does the dealer.
 

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It all really depends. In your case...I don't know. If you felt like you did a good thing, then that's good.

I know that I went to my local shop and tried out a bunch of instruments, and they didn't have what I really wanted. It wouldn't be cheap and I'd have to wait 8 months for it to come, at least. So I was lucky enough to find one used on eBay. I had it tuned up at the shop and still have saved around 600 dollars. I didn't feel bad, because I've spent a good deal of money there over the years.

Now, if only they wouldn't hound me about trying out Cannonballs...
 

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Enviroguy said:
That's an interesting and honest position, Dave.

I try to live my life in a moral way and I respect your point. But I'm not so sure I agree. Many times I have gone to a local car dealer and test drove different models to find out which one I want. And invariably, that local dealer has never had the best price on the model I want to buy. So I search until I find the dealer with the best price and buy the car I want. I don't feel obligated to buy the local dealer's car for several thousand dollars extra.

In the small rural town where I grew up, the local shops often had their prices jacked up so high that it was cheaper to drive 100 miles to Little Rock to buy what I wanted. That even includes groceries. So maybe, I don't have the appreciation of small local vendors that others have.

But maybe I do sometime feel a little guilty about that. And I guess that's why I usually breakdown and buy the $6-each Vandoren reeds from the local music shop. I know they are robbing me, but I figure that's fair compensation since I sometimes try out their stuff.
In that case, perhaps the decent thing after buying at Little Rock would be to offer the local dealer a realistic price for the services he provided you with (including the overheads involved in offering that service in a remote area!). That would be fair, and also provide a clear message to him about his pricing.

Anything else surely abuses the kind system he has of including the cost of his service in the final selling price.

The alterntive system is for ALL dealers to charge directly for the services you use.

Not many of us do the decent thing. I respect New-on-Sax's for his efforts at decency.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Actually the story was in the forums here.
I tried to re-find the tread but lost it.
Plus I see a trend shifting that way.
More online, less stores.
Basically a lady took her son, spent hours at the store and then baught a horn online for 50 bucks less.
50 BUCKS!!!!!
If a new model was 500 less in a store that would be one thing.
But the 50 bucks is criminal.
Sorry but that covers the time that you spend there.
That is WHY online is cheaper.
They dont hire anyone!
Thats my 2 cents.
Maybe I was a little harsh on the first thread.
But if we all baught online .................
No more music stores.
:x :cry: :x :cry: :x :cry:
 

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Looking at it logically, the on-line market will continue to expand.
Many musical instrument stores have their own web-site where you can purchase instruments much more cheaply than in store.

"Ethically" you could find one at reasonable distance from your home, try out a few horns in the store and then buy from them on-line.

I bought my T62 on-line from such a store. It will be taken back there when it needs adjusting and I've purchased bits from them since. I've also recommended them to other people.

Any musical instrument store which ignores the internet and the threat that continues to grow will be facing increasing problems and many will go to the wall.

It has already had that effect in the Greater Manchester area. There are very few music stores now anyway and there is little choice in most, other than Trevor James horns.
 

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well...you should become a preacher!

nevertheless, you´re right in many ways.
i bought my first horn online, it was MUCH cheaper and i was only a student.
and i have to admit i tried out some horns, even the one i later bought, in a local shop. but i did not waste any shopkeeper´s time, i just tried them out alone.
still, i went to the shop later to buy further equipment and now that they had a really good priced horn i even buyed one.
but - can you imagine that there will be less and less shops over time? shops with real employees only where direct customer contact is really needed? more people working for online stores than in local shops?
well, i see that coming, it´s a natural development, and by far not the worst in a capitalistic economy. even has its advantages.
and some people clinging to shops (count me as one of them) out of morality won´t do much nof a change, i´m afraid.

bye
 

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Music stores rely heavily on student rental business. They don't pretend to compete with online discounters, and the online sources can't do the school thing.

Many retailers also employ competent fulltime technicians. You can buy a horn cheaper online and have the store tech set it up. Mainly what you get are bragging rights about how little you paid for your horn because by the time you pay for a pro setup, you just about offset the discount.

The one thing an online discounter can't usually offer is try-before-you-buy. Going into a store and test-playing a horn doesn't tell you a lot about the horn you plan to buy cheaper online.
 

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This is a great topic for a thread. I believe it is important to remember that at a music store the customer is not only paying for the instrument or accessories, but is also paying for the service and convenience provided. There have been many occasions that people have brought their new instrument to our shop that they bought online or at their nearest "big box store" and expect us to repair it for free under the "manufacturer's" warranty. We politely explain to them that had they purchased the instrument from our store it would be under warranty for a year for all repairs excluding careless or deliberate damage. We suggest they contact their internet supplier or big box store to help them with the repair if they are not willing to pay us to do it. (It is not hard to do this with a smile.):)

On many occasions the sales person or someone in the shop will teach a new player how to clean and maintain an instrument or give them a lesson on breath support and embouchure if they are having difficulty producing a tone. This is done free of charge and is part of the hands on service we provide to our customers that an internet store can't provide.

If enough people follow the dishonest trend of trying out instruments, amps, mouthpieces, etc. in their local store and then buying them online, the local stores will eventually close. If that happens, who will provide the service and convenience then?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
[If enough people follow the dishonest trend of trying out instruments, amps, mouthpieces, etc. in their local store and then buying them online, the local stores will eventually close. If that happens, who will provide the service and convenience then?[/QUOTE]

thank you for wording that so well.
That is my point.
When I got my mouthpiece The shop keep spent about 10 minutes explaining which one would work best, set me up in a room and then afterwards told me his opinion on what reed to use.
If I would have then left and baught it on AMAZON I would have wasted all his time for nothing.
I also did not want a whole box of reeds. I baught two. I am so new to sax that I never thought of looking at the reeds. AFTER he checked me out he was bagging my stuff, looked at the reed and showed it to me. It looked SLIGHTY imperfect. Without me pointing this out or asking for a new one he replaced it for me and gave me a perfect reed.
NOW on the other hand had I just bought it without trial first. Fine. But I really feel that if we take up all thier time and the courtesy we are obligated to buy.
You know the price before you try it. You dont try out a horn or mouthpiece for 30 mintues THEN ask the price. You ask first.
If he would have said 60 bucks, and online it was 25 I would have handed it back to him and said thanks and left.
I woudl not try it out put him through all that and then hand it back.
That is wrong.
Perhaps I am old fashioned. Perhaps not. But I feel that anyone with a conscience should not do this. It is wrong.
Cheaper is not allways better.
Faster is not allways better.
We tip waiters for the SERVICE they provice.
We are tipping the sax shop also.
It is really the same thing.

DAVE
 

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At my dealership, we all work on commission. Unless a car is sold and delivered, the salesman receives no pay. A salesman selling a car at minimal or no profit to the dealer is paid a "mini" of $100 before deductions.

Imagine how a father of three with a mortgage and stay-at-home wife feels when after spending 2 hours with a potential car customer, the customer says thanks but I'm going to shop for the best price at several dealers.

It happens a lot, and psychologically destroys many otherwise fine men.

I've seen people who live locally, use our service facility, and spend over 10 hours of my salesman's time show up later with a car bought at another dealer for a difference of $100 or less!

I could write pages and pages at many levels, but ultimately people can really $u[k sometimes.
 

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jbtsax said:
If enough people follow the dishonest trend of trying out instruments, amps, mouthpieces, etc. in their local store and then buying them online, the local stores will eventually close.
I disagree that buyers are being dishonest when they try out products locally and buy online. Retail stores are well aware who the competition is. Make it worth a buyer's while to buy locally and they will. If you can't compete, don't bitch when buyers look for a better deal. That's not dishonesty, it's fair commerce. It's just how things work.

Target markets that online stores can't supply, such as school rentals, lessons and service, and you won't close. If those marketplaces exist in your neighborhood, you will survive and thrive. But you have to be willing to shift along with constantly changing marketplaces. If you are unwilling or not dynamic enough to do that, then, yes, you will close, and well you should. A well-functioning free enterprise system provides the best deals to buyers, not guaranteed income to sellers.
 

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New On Sax said:
Actually the story was in the forums here.
I tried to re-find the tread but lost it.
Plus I see a trend shifting that way.
More online, less stores.
Basically a lady took her son, spent hours at the store and then baught a horn online for 50 bucks less.
50 BUCKS!!!!!
If a new model was 500 less in a store that would be one thing.
But the 50 bucks is criminal.
Sorry but that covers the time that you spend there.
That is WHY online is cheaper.
They dont hire anyone!
Thats my 2 cents.
Maybe I was a little harsh on the first thread.
But if we all baught online .................
No more music stores.
:x :cry: :x :cry: :x :cry:


I think you need to refigure some things that your saying. My business has a online site and we do 85 percent of our business through the mail. I have more people working here with me then most local stores do. If there is a reason online stores charge less its becasue the competion is much greater. A local store may be the only store in the area for miles and therefore has the local school district business, which is alot if your in a state like TX or KS where student band programs are massive. If you think that the professional players make up the majority of the market, your wrong. School and students are the majority. Lets also not forget that $50.00 is still $50.00 to someone. Maybe for you it wouldn't be a big deal to spend, but to a mom with 3 kids it might be a big deal. The truth is that every business is out to make money. I think I know the thread you were talking about, and if I remember correctly, there was a mixed opinion in responses and many points made that in todays business world, it is up to to store, online, mail or walk in, to close the sale. Look at the other side, if the store sales person wasn't willing to drop the price $50.00 to make the sale then was the consumer wrong to buy elsewhere? Just a few thoughts.
 

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Support your local dealer so they will be there when you need them. My local dealer almost matched the online price of a Sax that I was going to buy. I didn't buy online as the dealer had several horns that I could try and his price was just slightly above the online price. I bought from the dealer right after I tried out the horns. They have been giving me free adjustments for several months so I believe I'm ahead of the online deal and the dealer is still there to help me when I need something. Win, win!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Lets also not forget that $50.00 is still $50.00 to someone. Maybe for you it wouldn't be a big deal to spend, but to a mom with 3 kids it might be a big deal. [/QUOTE]

Ah but that is not my point.
My point is that if 50 bucks is a big deal than buy online
go ahead
have at it.

dont waste the time at the store if you KNOW WITH CERTAINTANTY that you will not buy there.

thats wrong.

period. there is no justification. You are using The services and goodwill of store A and then turing around and buying from store B

If you want to buy a YAMAHA 23 for your kid online go ahead. But please why would you go to a store and try it out for hours if you know before hand that the price would be too much. And you will buy it online.

you cant justify that. No one can.

It's in other markets as well. Read the EXCELLENT car example above. That is gross.

DAVE
 

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If someone moved in to the area my father would service their instruments and bend over backwards to accommodate them. If a customer bought elsewhere he wouldn't touch the instrument for any amount of pleading or money. I'm of the same philosophy.
I rebuilt a violin for a customer. While it was still in clamps he asked me to buy a set of strings from an ebay vendor who was selling them for less than my cost. So I bought 3 sets of strings - not a proper set as it turned out BTW - and charged him the difference from my price to the ebay price for installation of the strings, which was always free if you got the strings from me.
Nobody needs that kind of crap from a customer.
 
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