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So this guy wanted to sit in last night....

26K views 113 replies 61 participants last post by  hgiles 
#1 ·
Oh Boy. We're playing an outdoor summer club thing. Big stage, big sound system, blah blah blah. The guy who sat in was really nice but the context was wrong. Young guys - here's the rule.

If the guys on stage are a lot better than you - do NOT ask to sit in.

This is the time you listen a learn. There are exceptions but if you don't know anyone on stage use this rule. I've been on both sides of this one and have made my share of mistakes. It's also important to understand that working bands often book tons of weddings from these outside events so every part of the show needs to be fairly professional. Please don't take it personally if someone says NO when you ask to sit in. That's what Tuesday night open mics are for.
 
#2 ·
Many years ago (70's - I think) I talked myself onstage with a young unknown band that was really good (Little Feat). They said up front - "you better know how to play!". From the first note I sucked so bad, that by the first chorus I was jumping about only pretending to play. I did this for a whole set. I was mortally embarrassed. Afterwards a fan came up and said, "That was great - Sax is what you needed all along!" I did not get invited back. I guess they didn't agree. :)
 
#51 ·
This is the right approach for me too.
 
#5 ·
Also,,,Musical ediquette is kind of like common sense,,,it cannot usually be learned. You have Guys come up and play over everything that you are doing! Usually when someone asks to sit in...It's not a good thing,,,and trying to get them off the Stage,,,,Whewwww. T
 
#6 ·
Also,,,Musical ediquette is kind of like common sense,,,it cannot usually be learned. You have Guys come up and play over everything that you are doing!
"When you can walk the rice paper without tearing it, then your steps will not be heard." -Master Kan
 
#7 ·
This is all rather bizaar to me. As stated earlier, there are open Mic nights for this. It's kind of like walking into a restaurant and saying "I've taken some cooking classes. Is it OK to go back to the kitchen and make a few dishes?" Or saying "I've messed around a bigt on my car. How about me helping with this tranny job you're doing?" at the repair shop.
 
#9 ·
Really? You let just anyone sit in without knowing how they play? Not a good idea.......for the band. Great idea for the player that wants to see what it's like to play with a real band instead of Jamie Abersold. Really easy fix to that problem........... When someone asks to sit in, say, "Sorry, this isn't open mic night".

To the players that can't play well, I say keep on asking. It's a good experience even if you get rejected.
To the bands that don't want players that can't play well, I say, you should know better.
 
#10 ·
To clarify - This is not my band. I didn't make the call on this one. Somehow he knew the drummer - sort of. But I agree, unless it's a wedding and the bride has asked if someone can play with the band, sitting in is just not something that happens with this particular group.
 
#11 ·
There are occasion when it's okay to sit in / let people sit in. Both sides need to consider context before doing it though.

Down here in New Orleans, people sit in all the time on the more "laid back" gigs, or if they know musicians in the band. Sitting in is a great experience albeit a possibly very challenging one. Making it a rule to not allow people sitting in whatever the circumstances is just being a ****. Trying to sit in with every band is also being inconsiderate.
 
#15 ·
I agree with many of the comments about "sitting in". I would never ask a band that already had a sax player but I'm at least decent enough these days to lend some fun to just about any band without. There is, as someone stated - a time and a place for this. The tighter the group on stage, the more careful you should be about asking. The worse they are - the less likely you'll want to ask. Between that and the fact that many gigs it's simply not appropriate, there's not a lot of times its likely to happen. Of course 35 years ago I was only vaguely aware of any of this. The Little Feat incident educated me quickly. Public embarrassment has on more than one occasion taught me a life lesson.

For example: Don't think for a moment that no one will notice if you try to pass off white boxer shorts as a swim suit. :)

PS. Especially not in cold water.
 
#16 ·
For example: Don't think for a moment that no one will notice if you try to pass off white boxer shorts as a swim suit. :)

PS. Especially not in cold water.
Oops! I better put some shorts on when I put out the garbage can!
 
#18 ·
Sure, this has occurred with me at times too.
I've always said no but I always told them I'd prefer they get up
and dance in an rather unbridled way. They usually looked at
me like I was kidding with them.

I think a little free improvised choreography would have been much better theatre.
 
#20 ·
I understand both sides of this. Back in the day ( or night ) when Bird or a big time player came to to town the jam sessions were held after the main attraction. You could get up there and find out how good you are real quick.

Or everyone met at another club and jammed.

I remember being at a club in Cincinnati where Eddie "Cleanhead" Vinson was playing and Miles' whole band came and jammed with Cleanhead sans Miles of course. Oh yeah he sang " Cherry Red " that night. The real deal.

Nobody outplayed Cleanhead that night. You could set a glass of water on that alto sound it was so lush.

So I was sitting at the table with Miles' percussionist Mtume ( Jimmy Heath's son ) and Cleanhead when Cleanhead said out of nowhere " I put Johnny Coltrane on the tenor sax ".

Everyone was in awe after he said it because we knew we we're getting history from the source. Coltrane joined his Rhythm and Blues band around 1948 as an alto player and he told Coltrane to go to tenor.

And ain't no use coming on here with refutations ( is that a word? ) because I'll believe Cleanhead over y'all.

Oh yeah I almost forgot we're talking about sitting in. Go ahead sit in if you're bold enough to ask and they're crazy enough to let you.

The only way to learn how to swim is get in the water. Of course you better know something about swimming if it's deep.

You gotta know what you don't know.
 
#23 ·
You gotta know what you don't know.
Good point.
It used to be that you could find that out at jam sessions - when back in the day, all the cats came out to hang, a green player would be psyched just to be allowed up on one or two easier songs and not suck. Now jams have evolved into democratically run amatuer hours, where the kid who's lame is never gonna find that out, just the opposite actually, he going to become empowered and think he has it going on and play on what ever because he is entitled by some unwritten jam rules that say so ....
 
#21 ·
A good friend sat in with our band only once on mandolin for the REM song Losing My Religion, which we played very well a hundred times without him.

He started playing in the wrong key, but strangely enough, did not grasp that he was off
and continued to play that way throughout the song to the end.
What a train wreck. The guitarist was furious.

I had played in another band with him, but not that song.
I was surprised that he did not realize AND to keep on playing that way? Yikes.

I laughed, what else can you do.
 
#42 ·
I enjoyed the clip - thanks for posting! Btw, the music was done by the great Shorty Rogers, so it is likely that the terrible trumpet playing was also him, deliberately playing badly.

From reading this thread, it seems like 'sitting in' is going to go the way of the dinosaur, unless one was cool enough, say like Randy Brecker. We might likely be welcomed everywhere then, but have no need to sit it with anybody - ironic!

But I agree that having someone sit in who can't sing the right notes, or play in the right key is highly distressing. So perhaps it is simpler not to let anyone sit in, unless he was Randy or Kenny...

The flip side of this situation is what I saw happening one time here. Randy Brecker came into town for a concert, and after that went to the top local jazz club and sat in with band there. Needless to say, everyone was bowing, scraping and gushing, and some other musicians there were also lining up to get up and jam with the great man. However, after about two tunes, I could see that the great Brecker wasn't really too happy with what he was hearing from the band. Guess they just weren't good enough for him. So he just packed up his horn, made some excuse and rushed back to his hotel, leaving behind a roomful of crestfallen musicians. So having a fantastic musician sit in with us ordinary folks can also be a bruising and punishing experience.

This is a problem with no easy solution. Perhaps everyone should carry around some videos or mp3s of themselves playing (say stored in their phones), and show them to the bands whom they want to sit with, so the house band knows what to expect and can say yes or no with due consideration. But that seems rather fidgety too.
 
#28 ·
I like to give my students my rule of etiquette for sitting in:

1. Don't ask to sit in with a band if you've never seen them before. If you don't know when you'll get a chance to see them again, then they may be a band that doesn't play in your area very often. If that's the case, they probably don't want someone they've never heard playing with them the one gig they have there that month (or year).

2. Most bands that are open to people sitting in have regular gigs in one place. This will give you a chance to see them and meet them before ever asking them about sitting in. After you see them, introduce yourself and ask if they ever let people sit in or if they mind you bringing your horn next time. Most reasonable people will welcome that.

3. Once you sit in - after one song, offer to leave or ask if they'd like you to stay. If they like your playing or if there's time in their set, they'll probably ask you to stay for at least one more tune.

4. NEVER leave the stage right after your solo. Stay until the end of their gig or their break to thank them for letting you play with them. Bands hate it when guys just come in, play their solo, and leave.

5. When you are sitting in, this doesn't mean that you will be the featured soloist. Wait for someone to signal to you before you start to solo. Don't play too long. A good rule of thumb is to play no longer than the first soloist.

Any other ideas or input?

I play in a band that's had a weekly gig for 11 years. We've had all types of people sit in. I usually find that mature, talented musicians will respect my decision not to let them sit in if I've never heard them play.
 
#32 ·
4. NEVER leave the stage right after your solo. Stay until the end of their gig or their break to thank them for letting you play with them. Bands hate it when guys just come in, play their solo, and leave.
+1 to this. And it's always fun and often educational to chat with the guys after they've finished playing. Most musicians love to chat up to a point. This is also just a basic rule of respect / good social behavior. Taking a solo and leaving is like getting a chick in bed and getting off when you're done with your business.

I'm always hesitant to jam with bands that play originals with intricate parts, even when asked to, as I'd rather contribute to the band's sound rather than just take a solo.

Which makes me think of a tricky situation : what would you guys do when you're invited to a jam and you don't think it's a good idea? It could be for a lot of reason : players are out of your league, or playing a style you're not comfortable just jamming in or invited to sit-in with a band when it's obviously a bad idea - which could also be for a lot of reasons...

I personally like to take the time and get a feel for what the music is about before sitting in but I've found myself thrown to the lions more than a few times with mixed results (at least according to my standards).
 
#29 ·
A singer sat in with a band I was in years ago. She sang the whole first chorus a perfect fourth higher than it should have been. Every note. Then I played the second chorus with her, but instead of being helpful I played the melody a perfect fourth higher to get a laugh from the band. She sang that chorus a perfect fourth higher than me. Every note. Best that band ever sounded.
 
#30 ·
At the same time, if you are decent, don't tell them (and remind them) how bad you are! That just gets annoying, and they start believing it! School of hard knocks (this happened to me when a Blues Band asked me to sit in with them on a gig, about 8 years ago). I've played with some of the guys form that band since, but we don't mention that day!
 
#34 ·
"every part of the show needs to be fairly professional"

So, you professionals let a strange guy sit in without even properly communicating what he needs to bring to the table (which might have scared him away anyway)?

I don't say he isn't to blame, but you or your band leader might be the real culprit, here. The whole "letting people sit in and solo"-business can be great if the right people meet, but on the other hand it inherently defies the intimate concept of a real "band" and very often it is nothing but showcasing and scale-boasting instead of real music-making.
 
#35 ·
LET ME BE CLEAR - I had NOTHING to do with this decision. I do not book the band or pay the members. Once we realized his playing abilities were a bit lacking, we let him solo and thanked him for sitting in. He hung around a chatted at the end of the night. He admitted that he wasn't really up to speed after the experience. There's no blame here - just one of those awkward moments that I thought I'd share.
 
#36 ·
There is only 1 band that I have an open invitation to sit in with. The IMS Concert band.
Any other band.. There'n no way I'd ask to embarrass myself in public like that.
 
#39 ·
Anything is possible, but I bet that would be a very rare situation. I've never run into it. I have run into a bar owner who insisted he be allowed to sit in....on drums! Then he stiffed us on the pay. He didn't pay as much as he said he would, probably because his drumming chased out paying/drinking customers (ok, maybe I'm embellishing the story a bit there). Needless to say, we never played that gig again.
 
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